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Old 06-23-03, 10:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Someone explain this nonsense to me! (lonnng rant)

My superintendant came to my door the other day...telling me she needed to talk to me "about my pets".
She then proceeded to "inform" me about the city bylaw that restricts exotic pets ( I knew about the bylaw already, but it doesn't apply to me due to the type and size of lizards I have).
No venomous pets, no more than two of any species, no greater than two feet long...etc, etc. Including a request that I not allow any of the neighbours, or their children to handle my lizards.
What brought this on...well, apparently we have had new tenants move into our complex. They have no less than 7 snakes, and rumour has it the number is actually greater than 20.
A week or so ago, they had one of their fellows outside for some sun, a neighbour boy (he's 9) and HIS mother went over to check out the snake. He was holding it, and the owners were doing thier "public service" bit, much the same as we all do...explaining why the snake makes a good pet, and that they really aren't scarey animals, etc. WELL...some OTHER kids mother saw this 9 year old child holding the snake, and FREAKED OUT!!! She went to the super, and complained...she went to the property management company and complained, she went to the CITY and complained...because of this, the owners now have to get rid of all of their snakes, except two, which must be under 2 feet long.
First off, it wasn't HER kid holding the snake, and the mother of the child that was holding it, was right there, and had no issue with it.
Secondly, the HUGE issue I have is...since our city has a bylaw saying no reptiles over two feet long...HOW can pet shops be allowed to sell these animals as babies????
They want us to be responsible pet owners...license out pets, vaccinate our pets, leash our pets...oh...and by the way...get RID of your REPTILES when they reach two feet!!!
It's craziness I say! Just WHERE are these iguanas, monitors, snakes etc supposed to go???
My superintendant is not ANTI reptile! In fact she told me herself she would rather have snakes and lizards as her tenants pets, since they don't chew the baseboards, piss on the carpets, poop on the lawns, bark all day and night!
She just wanted to let me know to be careful, that we have a neighbour that wants the herps out of the neighbourhood, due to her little phobia.

I was at the pet shop where I rescued Dill, they have a WHACK of new lizards...baby iguanas, tegus, savannah monitors, water monitors...I believe the majority, if not all of those grow to more than two feet long. When I asked the pet shop guy about it...he said..."what bylaw?", "I dont know nothin' about no bylaw". He was being sarcastic of course, and described the bylaw as bulls***. He says he doesn't tell his customers about it, and IF they know about it, he tells them to break the law as they see fit...if an animal control officer comes to your door...LIE! If they MAKE you get rid of the animals, then take them to a friends until they do their inspection, and then bring them back.

I just dont' get it. The city is teaching irreasponsible pet ownership,they bit** and whine about all the unwanted cats and dogs, because when they're no longer kittens and puppies, and no longer "cute" anymore people get rid of them...but yet the city is enforcing a law that causes much loved reptile family members to be given up when they are no longer babies.
The pet shop is teaching irresponsible pet ownership by not informing customers of the potential that they may invest tons of time and money only to have some phobic, "Mrs. Kravitz" type neighbour rat them out to the city, and be forced to say goodbye to their "babies".

It's craziness! It's unfair, and unjust. I honestly believe that the vast majority of people that take on a reptile as a pet invest some much more time and money caring for thier animals than the average cat and dog owners!!
Just go look at the cat and dog forums on here...compare them to even just THIS forum. It's all cutesy poo, baby talk, "meow chat" kind of stuff...with some seriousness thrown in...whereas in here, we talk about health issues, and how to's, with a little cutesy poo stuff thrown in for a laugh, or to lighten the mood.
(Don't get me wrong...I know they love their pets too, and would walk on broken glass for them!!!)

Anyway...I need to stop ranting!! I'm just disgusted by the going's on in my neighbourhood lately!!
Whatever happened to live, and let live????

Kim
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Old 06-23-03, 10:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Rant warning from me too!

Kim, those laws are just sick!!!! I don't know exactly what city you live in, but I am sick to death of politicians making their ignorant decisions about what types of pets people can own. TWO FEET?!?!?!?! Spare me! I'd be willing to bet that my 6 foot corn snake is a hell of a lot less harmful than an 80 lb rottweiler, but I'm sure those monsters are perfectly legal. Sh** like this absolutely infuriates me. I thought the laws in Alberta were strict... gawd, whatever city you live in makes Calgary look like anything goes.

I encourage you to go ahead and break the laws. Screw those ignoramuses and their B.S. laws.

end rant.
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Old 06-23-03, 10:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That is one of the stupidest things I have heard today. 2 ft? I swear people are getting more stupid. I just read other by law threads and this is really getting to me. It seems like we are all taking a step back in public opinion. We are having our own by laws being written here and it seems like there is nothing we can do they don't like it when you point out mistakes in there species facts or make good points against them. They have completely cut us out of any decusions also. How on earth can you have a public meeting without informing the public? Stupidity is rising!
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Old 06-23-03, 11:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I agree with Invictus. I feel the same exact way. That is just a bunch of BULL CRAP!!! And that lady that saw the kid holding the snake... what NERVE she had to go off and tell like that!! She needs to be smacked or something because she really has nothing better to do then go off and destroy this love and passion for reptiles. What is this world coming to? Those people are perfectly STUPID!! I'm done here... I'm so mad, I just can't say anything else...
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Old 06-23-03, 11:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well, the real kick in the teeth is that the rodesian ridgeback that lives in the unit BESIDE the unit with the snakes ATTACKED my son, while the dog was on a leash.
My son sustained FIVE bites on his legs, upper arms, and hands, and has the scars to show for it, for the rest of his life.

When I went to the womans door to find out if the dog has had it's shots...she said to me "PROVE that my dog bit your son, because I don't believe you"
She was holding the damn leash when it bit him, for crying out loud!!! She refused to provide me with the info about the dogs rabies shots, and told me to call the police if I had a problem with it.
It wouldn't of mattered if I had a "problem with it" or not, because my son required treatment at the hospital even if I didn't call the cops, the hospital HAS to.

The most sickening part of all this is...the dogs owner is a vet!
The dog got his "free bite" and now only has to be muzzled when out in public. FREE BITE my ***!!! He bit my son FIVE times!!!
But there is NOTHING I can do about it!
And here my neighbours are, with their snakes...that most of the time aren't even outside of the house, they haven't hurt anyone...but yet they have to get rid of them.

It makes me sick!

(by the way, I live in London, Ontario)

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Old 06-24-03, 07:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Kim.... I think you might be mistaken.... It USED TO BE, the first bite was "free".... but, I think they repealed that in EVERY State in the Union....
By the way.... is the dog OVER TWO FEET??....
I would take her to Small Claims court in ANY case.... the owner will be UNDER OATH, and, even so, YOU were there and witnessed it!!.... I can almost GUARANTEE that you will win!
As far as a pet store telling people to LIE.... that's ridiculous!.... Of all places, the pet shop should KNOW the laws and bi-laws of the town they live in.... What about the animals in their store that are over two feet??.... Doesn't the Fish and Game in your area make them get rid of them somehow?
Last point.... for the lady that ratted everybody out.... my buddy has a 26 foot Burm he will let you borrow for a while??.... That lady would make a GREAT appetizer, and no evidence will be left!!

....Neil
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Old 06-24-03, 07:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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To hell with the Mayor, Icequeen. I'd suggest you get in touch with your MLA and make sure the Premiere of Ontario gets personally involved with this horsesh**. There are areas of Ontario where you can own BLACK FRICKEN MAMBAS, but not a reptile over two feet in London?????? It's stupid. The only thing that worries me is that the Premiere will say "You know what? You're right! Now reptiles are banned from all of Ontario!"

Seriously though, it never hurts to confront your city council. Get vets and herpetologists to back you up, and request audience with your mayor. Yo never know until you try, right?
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Old 06-24-03, 08:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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y dont u all move to england there are hardly anny laws restricting u, but 2ft for f*ck sake there are hardly anny snakes that grow that small
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Old 06-24-03, 08:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think we all need to get organized and do something about these kind of laws.. I think there are enough of us now to get rid of these ridiculous by-laws.
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Old 06-24-03, 09:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Well from reading your story it seems you got off lucky if you ask me! (not about your son, thats terrible about the dog bites, i mean the reptiles)

You are lucky enough to have her warn you. The other reptile people should be responsible enough to not overload an apartment with more reptiles they can have space for. As much as everyone should be allowed to keep anything, I see nothing wrong with limiting someones collection in an apartment. At least she came to tell you to be careful and not tell you to get out!

The laws are such BS. It sucks but at least you are typing on the net and not packing boxes right now

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Old 06-24-03, 11:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey Icequeen, as you know I live in the same city as you do. There are ways around the by laws trust me heheheh. Mail me & I'll help ya out if they come to bug you because they tried that gestapo crap with me and my animals are bigger then yours.
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Old 06-24-03, 12:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I agree with Baz. There is a lot of us from all across Canada on this site alone. I think we could make quite a diff working together. Especially sharing the bits we learned for our own areas already as the colonel suggested. This may be worth a forum all its own.
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Old 06-24-03, 02:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i swear, if i knew that woman i would shoot her in the foot or something. It wasn't even her kid, it's none of her frickin' business!!! And about that 2 foot thing that is the most ******** thing i have ever heard in my life...HOLY CRAP!!! PEOPLE THAT STUPID AND IGNORANT SOULD JUST LEAVE!!! >
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Old 06-24-03, 02:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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GO BAZ!!! you are exactly right!!! we need to do something about this crap!
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Old 06-24-03, 03:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well....guess what I found out today!!!

Someone sent me the bylaws for the city of London...and it's true that one can not possess a snake greater than 24inches...but check this!!!!

One can not possess a non-venomous lizard greater than <b>12 inches</b>!!!!!!!

Both of my guys are bigger than that!! So, does this mean that no one can own anything more than an Anole, or a gecko into adulthood???

This is craziness!! I hope Mrs. Kravitz never sees THAT paragraph of the bylaws, or my guys are doomed!
The other thing that I was mistaken about was: I thought you were not allowed to have more than 2 of any SPECIES...but..NOOOO...you're not allowed to have more than TWO animals of any variety, period.
From my reading of it, it implies you can have a dog, and two other animals of any species that is permitted within city limits.

By the way, I don't live in an apartment, I live in a three story townhouse that has about the same square footage as a stand alone house. Same as the snake owners.
My super was quite impressed with their set up for thier snakes, and she honestly feels that they didn't do anything wrong. (This woman also kept lizards when she was younger, so she's kind of "one of us"!) Which is why she gave me the heads up about Ms.Busybody.

UGH!! The whole thing just irritates me to no end!!!


As far as the dog biting my son...the police were involved, the animal control people were involved, and all I can say is the dog is still around.
They wouldn't even provide me with the owners NAME! I'm sure the fact that he's only scarred, rather than dead, played a part in why the dog is still alive.
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