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Old 06-23-03, 09:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Vote No to banning reptiles

Got to the article in todays province on the issue and look in the left hand side of the page for a poll and vote no to banning reptiles!
"I love the smell of Iguanas in the morning!"
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Old 06-23-03, 09:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Please everybody vote! It is a damaging 80% YES to ban reptiles!
:eb: JJ and the Zoo

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Old 06-23-03, 09:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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We need your help guys!! Please vote no....
Herp Haven Reptiles - Quality Captive Bred Herps

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Old 06-23-03, 10:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow it is amazing just when you think you have heard it all. Some one comes up with some new BS, "Reptiles die in basements", what the hell is that? They never back up anything with fact. They just use the publics uneducated knowledge against keepers when really they have no idea what any of this is actually going to do. People are so quick to protect animals that it blinds them to the reality of reptile keeping. I love how any idiot can own a furry animal, get tired of it and have the SPCA euthanize it for them and no one care but as soon as it is an unpopular pet to begin with then it is a problem. Maybe 10 years ago they had a case with wild caughts but now with so many species being bred in captivity that argument holds little weight.
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Old 06-23-03, 10:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Here is the letter I sent to the province

Dear Mr. Spencer

I have a few things I would like to point out in regards to your article on the exotic animal bylaw in Surrey. Firstly reptiles do not "live and die in basements". A basement is not a good place to keep a reptile for one. It is dark and cold. I keep many reptiles in many rooms of my house but not one in the basement. Second I have been keeping reptiles as pets for about 7 years now and in that time I have only had one die. Mind you those are pets. I also do rescue and adoption work and unfortunatly I have had a few of those die. Nobody is denying a problem exisits but it exists with pet s in general. Dogs and cats in the droves are euthanized every year because of irresponsible and ignorant *people*. Animals do not abuse themselves you know. If we take away certain animals those people will not stop, they will move on to another animal. As far as restricting reptile sales go we as reptile keepers and even breeders and stores are ok with this but within reason. Richmond's brand new bylaw is commendable. It specifically targets stores and problem animals. People often buy on impulse in stores and we want to keep certain animals out of easy access in these stores. Iguanas for example grow to be 4-6 feet long as adults and most people dont even realize it. If we keep them out of the stores people will have to do a little more work to get them and find out before hand what their care needs are. The surrey bylaw will mean nobody can sell, trade or even give away any reptile in the city. That is ridiculous. What about people who live in Surrey who run adoption centers? What will they do? What about pet keepers? Where will they buy reptile food and supplies at a decent price? Stores won't care to sell those items if they don't sell the animal. Then yes there are breeders, people who sell reptile food and products and stores. Not all are perfect but just because they make money in a business centered around reptiles doesn't make them scum bag animal abusers. Reptiles are not new or a fad. They have been kept for a very long time and they are not going anywhere. Except for a rare few types of reptile most types available as pets have been bred and hand raised by people. Cornsnakes have been bred so long they have designer colours through genetic selection in breeding programs. Reptiles have no families they have been taken from in the wild like poor little Nemo. To most of them humans are what passes for family and truthfully they don't do the family thing. Most mama lizards would eat their young if they happened across them after they hatch.
Reptiles are pets to us. They may be in "cages" (which can be large and spacious and include plants to create a jungle) but what is a fence if not a cage to a dog? And is it really a good thing that people let their cats run wild? I have had an iguana come from her favorite spot by the window up onto the arm of my chair and keep me company while I watch TV. I have seen an iguana mope because its owner is away. I have seen a python follow its owners tracks through the grass when there were plenty of other people around. I have sat stroking my iguana after spending $1000 on a surgery hoping that she would wake up because I would be lost without her. I have seen people cuddle with snakes. Some people like dogs and some don't. Its the same with reptiles. We like them. Why do we have to always be afraid someone will come and make a law to take them away? More reptile owners crack books on caring for their animals than dog and cat owners. More dogs and cats get abused, abandoned or neglected. More dogs and cats cause serious injury to human persons and property than reptiles. More dogs and cats run loose. Reptiles don't break noise bylaws or poop in your garden. They don't need off leash parks. Why are they targets? The answer: these people who try to persuade cities to make these bylaws are extremists. They really want no animal to be a pet. Its too hard to target cats and dogs now though so they go after reptiles. Once the precedent has been set though, you can bet dogs and cats will be next!

Reptiles are not wild or exotic. They are animals. Cat, dog, reptile--they all behave according to instinct and learning. If you throw food to a cat and never touch it, it will grow to be wild and untame. The same goes for a reptile. People must be educated to properly socialize reptiles. And even when properly socialized they will react with instinct. A dog might snap at you if you try to touch its food, or if its injured. Same as a reptile might. They are really not so different as pets--people just fear what they do not understand.

Amanda Fenrick
Pitt MEadows BC

By the way Gail Watson is no breeder. He is a sweet old man who has been doing reptile education for decades. He takes all his free time and goes to schools, kids groups, libraries, special needs kids camps, SPCA camps and on and on and on. He does so many I often worry he will give him self a heart attack from the effort. He deserves some kind of community award or something and you made him out sounding like a self interested breeder, even if that was not your intent. Instead of writing an article like today's why not do a story on him. It would be much more interesting and positive in this world of negativity.
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Old 06-23-03, 10:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That article by Kent Spencer made it sound like he was in favor of keeping reptiles as pets. At the beginning he was totally pointing out the stupidity of it. Good article. Biased and on OUR side, don't you think?
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Old 06-23-03, 11:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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damnit i tried to vote more than once but it wouldnt let me come on people lets VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:12pm]«@ [Matt]» he's all up in there like swimwear.
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Old 06-23-03, 11:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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that sucks. Washington passed law back in January dealing with the banning of Oregon and Alberta next.
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Old 06-24-03, 12:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It was hard to say whose side he was on. Actually I thought it was a little poorly written. He seems to be trying to tell a story that was way bigger than he had room for. It was choppy with all the quotes and I know some of the "our side " people he quoted--the quotes were poorly chosen and sort of reflect a breeder bias which isnt there. A lot of the facts were innacurate so it was also poorly researched. I'm not exactly sure whose "side" he is seems that he is trying a little too hard to be unbiassed but at the same time a bias seems to be there if you know the story and the people he is talking about. All in all the article did us no favours.
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Old 06-24-03, 01:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think it is funny how several people want to have the reptiles as pets just for show or amusiment, but on the other hand when they get anIguana from a fair as a prize they are clueless. The main problem in my oppion is they think that anything without fur is not to be kept as a pet. I have a Red Tail that is over 10ft and just as tame now as she was when I first got her.
The town that I used to live in tried to put a ban on anyone owning a "poisionus constricter" (witch I have yet to see). I went to the city counsel meeting and gave my side of the story with the help of the Animal Control Officer. Who stated that in the past 20 years that he was in charge of animal control there was no reproted cases of bites from reptiles ever and at least 100 reported cases of bites from cats and dogs a year. So thats about 2,000 bites from furry animals to 0 bites from reptiles, so what makes the safer pet?
I have rescued several reptiles from people that could not handle them any more, or they did get bored and the fun was over.
I wil be the first to admit some of the ones that I rescued would not have been my first choice to get but I was willing to take the time to do the right thing untill a proper home could be found, not all of them lived past a week for various reasons most was malnutrition from the time that I had gotten them.
Thanks Will
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Old 06-24-03, 05:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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ive voted and ime going to vote on my mum's pc every 1 go to cyber cafs and use there pc's that should get things evind up all so send the page to 5 friends asking them to send it to five friend and so on
0.1 corn snake, 0.1 ball python, 2.1 leopard geckos (seperated )
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Old 06-24-03, 06:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I voted.

IMO the bottom line here is that people are scared of what they don't know. Ignorance.........
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Old 06-24-03, 07:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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this morning when I voted the score was 66% yes 34% no
get off you bootie and vote guys!
Herpetoculture isn’t an exact science!!
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Old 06-24-03, 07:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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oh *****!Im going to the other forum to post this!
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Old 06-24-03, 07:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I vote a big ol' no and I'll try and do it on every computer at my work.
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