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Old 06-15-03, 09:05 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Also reverend, exaclty what you said the enviroment wouldt/couldt stand all those snakes they woudlt die but first they would search for food and snakes can live awhile without it. THey would go to urban areas which would cause a major increase in bites. To stop the shows it would take years of decreasing the amount of snakes taken untilt he enviroment could hold them. I agree with krocguy its all about the money.
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Old 06-15-03, 09:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I know I said I wasn't going to reply but this is just nonsensical!

Politics and boxing arent the same as slaughtering snakes! Boxers enter into a contract that states that they agree to fighting and possibly getting seriously hurt. I don't even know what politics has to do with anything.

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I'm defending it because people that dont even know whats going on are posting things that are'nt true and then go and eat a hamburger and put on their leather jacket!!!
So you hate roundups because you think they are awful, but you are defending them because they aren't really that bad??

It's been stated that no one here is against the actual eating of snake meat. That would be hypocritical, yes. I eat meat, but I wouldn't stand for cows being chased and killed horribly for my enjoyment.

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If these games where people stuff snakes in bags to exist they are very rare and dont occur in big shows where the head honchoes are present
The innocent/educational (uhuh) part of rattlesnake roundups I'm sure no one would have a problem with. But what is shown in documentaries (yes, I know they are biased) have actually happened (they didnt stage something awful just to stop roundups), and that's what everyone here is against. We are against the way they are caught, the way they are treated and the way they are killed.

I don't refuse to witness it, but I'm not going to go to texas just so I can see animal cruelty and slaughter.

Nature has a way of balancing itself. Otherwise the whole world would be overrun by rattlers, right? I'll give you an example. A while ago (50-some years I believe) there was a big coyote scare. Everyone hated them and wanted them dead. So they killed almost all of them. What happened that year? They were overrun with rabbits!! Which made is easier for the remaining coyotes to get all the food they needed and reproduce. A few years later there werent enough rabbits for that many coyotes and many died, and balance between prey and predator was found again.

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Old 06-15-03, 09:23 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Hello duh polotics is involved because the people that run the whole society club whatever you want to call it are in polotics their governors congressmen/women such forth tahst why its still running they cant pass laws to stop it. I meant by boxing and polotics is that their dangerous things murder, consperisy runs rampid in both which is unrelated which is why its another story.
I'm defending it because its not as badd as you people think it is and becuase its a way of life for some shutting it down would be like shutting down a circuses all the people wouldt have jobs anymnore.
Oh yah one problem the whole coyote thing is still a problem to coyotes are still a big problem here at least. In fact we have a huge pack that lives inside the city. Freaky right but that a diffrient story and kind of funny and not as scary as it might sound.
The point is they are badd very badd but not as badd as people think and you can JUST shut them down that woudlt be fair or right. Yes, I know neighter is the killing of the snakes but thats just how it is. We all want it to be stopped but it wouldt be so easy as 1-2-3 so we have to deal with it till it changes.
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Old 06-15-03, 09:30 PM   #34 (permalink)
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but thats just how it is
Could you imagine how the world would be be if everyone thought that way? There'd still be so much racism, slavery, torture (human torture), fascism. who knows what else.

You can't just accept something because it's a way of life. If negros had said "yes, i'm a slave, I get starved and beaten every day by a white man. but hey, thats life!", things would be awful today. Stuff doesn't change on it's own.

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Hello duh polotics is involved because the people that run the whole society club whatever you want to call it are in polotics their governors congressmen/women such forth tahst why its still running they cant pass laws to stop it. I meant by boxing and polotics is that their dangerous things murder, consperisy runs rampid in both which is unrelated which is why its another story.
I still don't see the relevance, but it does go to show how unbelievably messed up humanity is. It makes me sick sometimes .

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we have to deal with it till it changes.
It never will change if we just accept it. Yes it might take a while to make things change, but it's people like those on this site (well, cept you <- i dont mean that in a mean way) who will make life better for these snakes in the future.

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Old 06-15-03, 09:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well then dont accept it some one do something, I dont see you on your way to washington. I accept it because it part of my everyday life nad I would never betray my family and friends which I would be doing if I was to stop it but if you wnat stop. Somone stop it I encourage you to soemone go now do it. Since you still dont see the revlance here. A congresman's son is a member of the roundup society. A bill comes up making it illegal for the roundups to exist that congressman is not going to vote for the bill, Or somethin to that effect.
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Old 06-15-03, 09:45 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ahh okay, I see what you mean about politics. I thought you were refering so some sort of cruelty. What about the boxing, though?

Yeah, you don't see me on my way to washington. Hmm why could that be? 1. Its 11:30 at night. 2. I can't afford the plane ticket 3. i'm 17 and would never go to such a city alone 4. I have SCHOOL. 5. I have WORK

Of course I do plan on doing something about it in the future. Right now all I can do it voice my concerns and objections.

Just so you know, I would "betray" anyone in my family who did something like that. Thankfully all my family are animal lovers Even my grandmother (who hates my snakes) respects snakes in the wild and would never hurt one (she'd be too scared lol), and my grandfather got real mad when a guy who was golfing with him killed a snake with his golf club .

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Old 06-16-03, 09:28 AM   #37 (permalink)
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In Canada we have the massassauga rattler and we used to have the timber rattler until people decided to go out and kill them. They extirpated the entire timber rattler popultation! The same thing is happening to the massassauga its numbers are very low. Rattlers are magnificant creatures, sure they POTENTIALLY deadly but that doesn't give people the right to take it upon themselves to play god. Dogs kill people but we don't have dog roundups. We have made it all this time living with rattlers and yes there are some deaths but a lot of the time it is just for defense. If some one was gonna step on you you would stop them by pushing them out of the way or something of that nature cause you don't want to get stepped on, well snakes don't have arms so the use the only things they can. The rattlesnake will give you a warning by rattling its tail and if you persist it will strike, so if you here the rattle and pursue then you deserve to get bitten.
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Old 06-16-03, 09:50 AM   #38 (permalink)
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heres a piece; http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/chapter4/page26.html

a little part: To eliminate rattlesnakes from the range, stockmen in the late 1800s began annual "rattlesnake roundups" in which local citizenry were enlisted in competitions to see who could bring in the most rattlers, dead or alive. In New Mexico, Texas, and Oklahoma today, ranchers still help organize rattlesnake roundups in which thousands of snakes are captured, mistreated, often tortured, and then killed. To drive snakes from their shelters and capture them, participants spray gasoline into thousands of underground holes and crevices, in the process killing many other animals, contaminating the soil, precluding denning and hibernating use by other animals, and polluting groundwater.
 
Old 06-16-03, 10:00 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Aqua_Elf also says "3. the snakes are milked and their venom is used for antivenom making and medical research." keep your facts straight
Dr. Teresa Telecky, HSUS wildlife trade program director, outlines some of the report’s findings. “Rattlesnake roundups are patently inhumane, and they adversely affect ecosystems by removing an important animal from the ecosystem. Rattlesnakes play a central role in their ecosystems by preying on rodents and keeping their numbers in check and by being prey themselves for raptors and other animals.” She adds that because there are strict federal regulations for the collection of venom and because it degrades quickly, no U.S. producer of antivenin would knowingly purchase venom from rattlesnake roundups.
 
Old 06-16-03, 10:01 AM   #40 (permalink)
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They also sometimes set fields or big brush piles on fire and caoture the fleeing animals. THEres a bounty for coyotes and lots of other animals!!! I never said the fact that rattlers kill gives us a right to kill them, but it is our right to do so until somone gets an amendmant to the constitution!!!
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Old 06-16-03, 10:12 AM   #41 (permalink)
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so now you want to murder them just cause you can since it's not illegal? you don't seem to make much sense.
 
Old 06-16-03, 10:13 AM   #42 (permalink)
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oh, and by the way, I grew up in Del Rio, and have been to the Sweetwater, Rocksprings, and Alamogordo roundups, cheered when Tom Moore was busted, and helped rescue his pit of animals
 
Old 06-16-03, 02:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Okay, heres my peice of mind.

First of all, DO NOT call these people red-necks aight...

Rattle snake rounds ups. Well, see, I'm not gonna take sides, but I'm gonna play the devils advocate aight. Look at it this way, dogs have fur, they are cute, cuddly , as well as cats and other "common" house hold pets. Sure, we are a small number of people who adore the reptilian species but hell, most of the world does not. Snakes are referred to as cold, nasty, evil and any other negative word possible. People hear stories of rattlers venom and all that bullshit how they kill everything that moves. etc.etc. That is somethin', although we try, will never be changed. This world is full of ignorant snobs and straight up, it will take a long time, if not forever, to change views. Of course the world will go nuts if people go around killin' puppies. Puppies show love, emotions blah blah blah, and they are cute and cuddley, lol. Majority of the people in this world expose little children to cute puppies to get their love for "nature" and pets. Not many, of the general public, show their kids snakes or many other reptiles. Sadly, thats how things are, and in the modern world, sorry to say people, but it aint gonna change.

Just to clarify, I'm not hatin' on no one. I like to see everyones views and I'm not justifyin' Rattler round ups, its just that, it happens and sure you can change a few peoples minds and all, but there will DEFINETLY be people still around doing what the do. Reality sucks, its just how it is. You gotta look at both viewpoints...

Just my 50 cent
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Old 06-16-03, 02:37 PM   #44 (permalink)
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No I've neevr said I want to do it I'm just saying that everyone in the states has the right to go kill them if they want and if you wannna cgange it go do it and stop wynign about it. I dont see nyoine here[with the exception of Samba] that is trying to change the law. The only thing I see wrong with the shows is the fact that their collected from the wild and that their killed btu if thiese were cabtive bred animasl that were bred for the simple pirpose to die no-one would care and if they do they should go and shut down all the ranchers, and butcher houses where the same thing happens to pigs, chickens, cows, and lots more. If I could I would stop the death of every animal nothign deserves to die for another species to prosper it not fair but again its just part of life something I have to deal with despite my ralleis and protest[which I have held].
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Old 06-16-03, 02:42 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Also Thats BS you people need to learn not to beleive everything that people say theres lots of loopholes through that and I have witnessed venom being sold to medical companies, they dont have to sell it in the name of the roundup theres again lots of loopholes the same way ppl kill people for their organs an dsell it through the B. market somehow the organ end up in hospitals and ppls bodies. Dont beleive everythign you hear did you beleive clinton when he said he didt screw monica? LIke I said its twisted into the world of polotics which is curved and twisted and full of conspericy.
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