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Old 05-23-03, 07:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Alright dude, You dont seem very old to me, And you deffinetly dont seem anywhere near qualified to run a pet shelter with your friends. If you dont live near a vert, dont bother. If you get a rattler with mouth rot (as Zoe said) you cant just put urself at risk without ANY exp. An animal shelter requires a LOT of time. If someone brings somthing in, you cant turn it away. Dont expect people to bring in corns/balls that cant shed, Expect Rattlers/Vipers with stomach rot or something, I gotta go to schoool Ill finish later.
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Old 05-23-03, 08:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Brad, your intentions are nobble but I don't believe you have 1/2 the idea of what you're getting into. It's nice that your buddies say they're going to help you now, but really all you have to count on is yourself.

As for the legal aspect of things, just because your family is "half the law around there" doesn't mean you can go around breaking the law and regulations as you see fit.

What are you going to do when you're up to you're eyeballs with unwanted iguanas, crocadiles or unfriendly constrictors, some of them vicious, some of them suffering nasty medical problems, all of them needing a vast amount of space and vet care? You can't release these animals back into the wild, even if they're native species to your area. You don't know what the animals have been in contact with or what they may be carrying. You could end up wiping out native colonies doing that.

Caring for your single king snake, iguana (that you don't have alot of time for) and a small lizard isn't all that expencive. How ever when you have 20 iguanas, a couple large constrictors and other large meat eating lizards you will need alot more food. Where are you going to get the funds for feeding all the problems dropped at your door? And yes they are problems because if they weren't then they wouldn't be given to you free of charge.

Where is the money to pay for the food for the crocadiles and adult rock pythons going to come from. Don't think you will have to deal with those? Guess again, people think they're all cute when they're babies but when they realize they need a full sized room with a bath tub to house it and a colony of goats to feed it it all of a sudden the croc doesn't look so cute.

Many people running rescues are working fulltime jobs to pay for the rescue. You're 15 and still in highscool (at least I hope you're in highschool). Having the rescue fee paid for by an adopting family won't begin to cover the costs of food, caging, ligting, vets and transportation. Yes you're going to have to pay for transporting an animal when you pick them up, and people won't pay you to pick up an animal either, they'll just kill the animal or set it free in the wild. How are you going to pick up these animals? Will your mommy drive you 2 hours to pick up a spitting cobra? Are you even set up for handling hots? Have you ever had to deal with a snake that has no anitvenom available? Will your parrents health insurance cover you if you have venomous snakes? will their house insurance cover you?

Also some of these animals you can't give away, never mind charge the costs of food and vet fees. Why would they want to pay all that for a broken iguana when they can buy a healthy baby at the petstore for a fraction of the cost?

At a local rescue they have 7 Iguana's that need homes. This is on top of the 35 that have already been adopted in recent history.

Have you ever handled an adult crocadile or rock python? How about an angry adult that needs medical attention. What are you going to do? Handle them like you see The Crocadile Hunter on tv? Steve's been handling these animals since before you've been born and he still manages to take bites and have other things go wrong. This is with a TRAINED STAFF OF PROFESSIONALS.

Running a rescue isn't something to take lightly. I considered doing it but realised it was far more then I was capable of, and it won't be the great source of free herps you think it will be. There is alot more involved then just hanging out your shingle and saying "Anyone got any snakes they don't want?".

I just noticed another thing. The only way to contact you is via email. Some times you don't even have the time to pick up the animal from the time you know about it. List a phone number and address so people can call or bring over their abbandoned herps.
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Last edited by Lisa; 05-23-03 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 05-23-03, 08:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You don't think you'll have to deal with big birds with broken wings? Tigers shot in the face but not killed? Lions or bears that have been kept as "look-at-these" animals but are now starving, worminfested and very sick? If you truly think that, you have no idea what you're betting into.

I really don't think you understand the implications... You can't just turn away animals that are too sick / too big / too aggressive handle, and only keep the good, sellable animals. It doesn't work that way, if they were worth selling, why would the owner GIVE it to you? People very, very rarely give away healthy, mid-to-high end animals. If you have no vet around, how are you going to the meds you need? How are you going to determine if a snake has IBD or a blood infection due to mites?
If you can't control a baby iguana, and have very little time to take care of your herps, this is really too big an operation for you to just decide to undertake. You need to devote ALL your time to this, all your money, you'd need to construct a few buildings devoted to the animals you're going to get (how the heck do you quarantine a few 25ft retics in a house?), you'll spend a fortune on meds (and since you have no access to a decent vet - you'll likely end up precribing the wrong meds and killing the animal.)

Opening a shelter is a good idea, but only when you're properly prepared and funded. You need lots of experience working with everything from birds of prey, to venomous snakes, to giant snakes, to lions and tigers, IGUANAS!, and who knows what else? And as stated before, you can't just say "Hey, a perfect ball python, I'll keep that. Ooh, sorry, we don't accept iguanas or burms, you'll have to bring them elsewhere."

And yes, federal laws DO apply, even if you live outside city limits and own the land. If I got a piece of land outside city limits would it be legal for me to do drugs there?

If you want to begin starting thing, you need to get into contact with game and wildlife officials and any other possibly implicated authorities, you need to look into laws and bylaws (really look into them - don't just ASSUME you can keep anything you want anywhere you want), get the proper training and experience (which will take you a few years - plenty of time to save all the $ you need), find a GOOD volonteer (you won't be able to afford to pay them) staff with lots of experiece, build some decent facilities, find a good vet... when you've done all that, you can get started. That's when you'll really mke a difference for all the neglected herps and other animals out there.

Last edited by Zoe; 05-23-03 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 05-23-03, 08:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
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but the thing is they need money and experience.....doesn't matter if he thinks hes got all the time to waste in the world, his idea is a good one and he may be sincere in wanting to help, but a rescue is 110% pure sweat and dedication....
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Old 05-23-03, 09:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Yes, but I also said it wast just me. Sorry but if you can't realize that then your stupid. That is just dumb anywayz i said i didt have alot of time but i had enough. If your going to post i plz ask that you read the enitre post before you critisize. I have other people that are willing to help and have the support of others, I do not know how mant times I have posted and reposted this so get over it if you insist of critisizes me then find a new subject.
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Old 05-23-03, 09:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Sorry, You are the one that is STUPID. I have never read such IDIOTIC crap before. You don't seem to realize what you're getting yourself into, Zoe and Lisa have clearly described what you have to face and the trials and tribulations that follow.
I'm not even going to waste my time!!
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Old 05-23-03, 11:32 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Brad, you obvously haven't read what Zoe or I typed. As for other people saying they're willing to help, well people are always saying they are willing to help until they find out that they're going to actually be expected to work for free or spend money, or that they may have to do it when it's inconvienent to them. Not to mention being a minor YOU will more then likely need parental consent. Do your parents want to pay out the funds needed for housing, feeding and care? Oh wait, people said they will help. well unless you see money up front don't count on it when you come asking for $600 for a vet bill. You still haven't covered the topics of insurance, liability and handling. Have your helpful people ever wrestled with an aligator or reticulated? What do they do when they come across a venomous animal? Shoot it?

Have you even talked to anyone runnning a rescue? There's a few people on this site that can tell you exactly what's involved. Or you can visit http://www.reptilerescue.on.ca and talk to the people that run that rescue. Ask them how many hours they put into the business after they come home from their full time job. And that's with the help of others.

Resorting to name calling when you aren't able to respond to questions isn't going to get you anywhere.

Another question, have you ever had to medicate a reptile? What did it have and what did you give it? How big a does did you give it? These are things you will need to do while running a rescue, and trust me, you won't want to get your "unqualified vet to do it for you, those fees will eat into a few months supply of food for a couple dozen animals.

Are you ready to pay for an 800 # for people to phone to say "i've got these reptiles that i don't want, come get them or they're going on the bbq".

Usually when you open a business you find out what's involved first, then do the things you need to do to open the business such as get licenseing, tools and experience, then you open up your doors.

Get the experience you need first and when you can support not only your self but a business too, then start taking in rescues.

As for everyone jumping on your back, it is because of what's at stake here. This isn't you trying to set up a landscaping business with your dad's electric mower, there's animals involved here. You obviously haven't thought hard about it if your answer to everything is "People say they they will help". Most peoples idea of help will be to the extent of saying "hey i know this guy who want snakes".


Before responding take an hour and do nothing but think about each one of the points everyone has brought up.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:55 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Night Crawler, there most certainly are laws and I've been visited by Animal Control this year, sent by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, just to check that all animals were properly housed and had received veterinary care if needed. They could have confiscated all my animals and fined me if they weren't happy with conditions. They asked to see all of my permits and I could have been shut down if I didn't have them!

I have 3 vets who work with me and put $1,200 into just one iguana's care in 2002 even though the vets donate their services. Medical supplies and tests are expensive!
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Old 05-23-03, 02:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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As for marissa i dont know where you live but here in texas as long as your out of city limits and you own the land or have permission by the owner you can do absolutely whatever you want.
Just because you CAN do whatever you want, doesn't mean you SHOULD. You have already proven to us that YOU should NOT.
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Old 05-23-03, 02:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Brad, try not to take what people are saying personally, they are seriously just trying to help you. I am not going to scold you or put down your ideas, because your intentions are good and everything, but this kind of thing takes alot of planning. I would suggest you get your parents involved if you are seriously planning on opening something like this. I would enroll in a venomous reptile program / course which i am sure they offer in your state, where you can get some knowledge about venomous snakes and reptiles and maybe even some hands on experience. Contact the owners of venomous reptiles in texas and ask them if you can come by or something of the nature. Being in Texas you are going to get ALOT of venomous stuff and like people said, you cant turn it away. So get your parents involved, tell them your ideas and maybe they will help you with your venture... Take what people are telling you here into consideration instead of taking it as a personal attack, because what they are telling you is the truth!
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Old 05-23-03, 03:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Night_Crawler
Yes, but I also said it wast just me. Sorry but if you can't realize that then your stupid. That is just dumb anywayz i said i didt have alot of time but i had enough. If your going to post i plz ask that you read the enitre post before you critisize. I have other people that are willing to help and have the support of others, I do not know how mant times I have posted and reposted this so get over it if you insist of critisizes me then find a new subject.
Alright, so you think you can get others to do all the work for you? What, your going to give the other people the hard stuff while you care for a Python that wont eat? I dont know you personally but I think this sounds like a seriously pathetic plea for more animals for you. And I, myself, dont know how many times Ive seen thing along the lines of 'You dunno what your getting urself into" and you still wont pay any attention. And if you really think you can pull this off, IMHO Your the stupid one. Wake up. (I know that seemed rude, But I needed to get that out.)
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Old 05-23-03, 03:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
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can we just close this post, please?
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Old 05-23-03, 03:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So what youde rather let the animals die then let them get what help they that is what it all boils down to I dont care what you say in the end thats what it is they some can live and get the help I or my Frinds can give or they can all die thats it and thats all so answer that do you wnat soem to live or all to die?
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Old 05-23-03, 03:56 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You think you can save every life? Trust me you cant, IMO you dont stand much of a chance. They would need PROPER MEDICAL ATTENTION. Not just feeding and such. Yes Rachel, I agree. We should close this. Night_Crawler, we cant change your mind but we CAN give you facts. My fact: BAD IDEA. Do what you want.
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Old 05-23-03, 04:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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To put it bluntly, I think he is bsing with this little story here. How can someone who can't even spell properly, nevermind not know the slightest thing about herps, even CONSIDER opening a rescue shelter. No offense if your serious, but #1 your only 14 and second you have told odd stories in the past, about killing a corn snake and smoking his blood in a pipe, which frankly I don't believe and I feel you are doing this in order to upset the herpers on this site as you are sure it will.
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