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Old 05-22-03, 06:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I dont think so night crawler that would be saying what the name of the store is and that is jeff does not want is slander to petstores
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Old 05-22-03, 06:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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he could say no which would be saying its not or he could say i cant say which would imply as being the only other logical choice that it is. ANd no one could sue him.
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Old 05-22-03, 09:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Samba, that's awesome!!! Way to go!!!

I had an excellent relationship with a district manager for one of the chain petstores and it actually broke my heart when I moved out of that area because after a few years of slowly working with him we were able to come to some compromises we both could live with.

Eventually the store stopped selling "fragile" species like iguanas and treefrogs because this manager realized that they were not able to keep the animals in proper caging in a cost-effective manner and it would be better to devoting their caging space to animals that required less from his staff. Once they stopped mixing species and ordered smaller but more frequent livestock deliveries their mortality rate went down which means they had more animals available for sale.

They started selling more cornsnakes, leopard geckos and firebellied toads as the caging was clean, bright and attractive which showed them off to best advantage and had fewer returns because of sick and dead animals so their profits increased. Concentrating on animals they could keep clean and healthy without blowing their budget on salad foods and constantly cleaning up after frequent poopers helped both staff and animals.

I would send frequent emails to the corporate office praising the store and that district manager for their hard work in improving conditions and basically sucking up unashamedly for the good of the animals. That really helped to solidify the good working relationship I had with this manager.

I found it to be a very good angle to show them how to get the biggest bang from the caging space they had available while protecting the health of the animals. It did take years working with this manager and a few calls to animal control to have the officers back me up on humane conditions for the animals but I found the work to be well worth it.

I admire you for working with the management at the store in your area and hope you can form a productive partnership as well. It's very rewarding when things like that happen. I've been in my new home for somewhat less than a year and am still trying to form such a good relationship with pet store owners and managers in my new area.
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Old 05-23-03, 02:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Nightcrawler...a yes or no would indicate slander in many ways. Yes would almost ensure a lawsuit...and no could result from another big box store sighting that slander was directed via implications that were made here towards them...bottom line..we get sued..say goodbye to this herping forum!!! Argue with me on this if you must, but lets face it..until you employ a lawyer like Jeff does...ill stick to neither a yes or no answer on various stores and suppliers...sorry this is how the world turns

Samba..best of luck, good to see ppl who really care out there. Lets just hope the new district manager isnt out to make a name for himself during his first few months on the job, only to have upper management push him back down in an attempt to silence the whole situation! Fight them tooth and nail, the best for the animals is the right thing to do.
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Old 05-23-03, 03:41 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Samba you should have gotten pictures or some form of decumented proof that way you could tell the world and as long as you could prove it to be true theres nothing that could be done. Also since its on the net it wouldt be slander, slander is spoken. In print its liable how do you think all the tabloids get awya with it, but they usually say from an unamed sorce which you could also have said. I don't think it wqas a petsmart every one I've been to was kept perfectly.
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Old 05-23-03, 07:17 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I've noticed that one of the bigger chain stores here has begun to change, the reptile dept although small in this town has nice set ups and when an animal is going to grow big they have that as part of the selling information and even push captive bred animals. They're not perfect but they're certainly better then they used to be.
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Old 05-23-03, 07:41 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Nightcrawler - Let it go, No one cares what store it is. The point is Samba is giving back and helping those sick animals. Why would you care what store it is? Why would you even put this site at risk to be sued?

Samba - Thats awesome, The animals thank you! . Best of luck with that store.
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Old 05-23-03, 12:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Night Crawler, if you are truly planning to open a shelter, you need to be much more tactful and diplomatic, and truly learn the laws of the land!!

Folks are sued all the time over things posted on web pages.
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Old 05-23-03, 12:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I know which chain she is referring to and I think they may actually be on the mend. The last one I went to looked great! All the animals looked healthy and the cages were actually clean! And I've been back a few times so it's actually not a fluke. And you know what, I SHOP there now! (still wouldn't buy a reptile there but we're getting closer) That's right...these pet stores need to learn that the healthier their animals look and the better the conditions are the more loyal customers they will have. They are only hurting themselves by scrimping on husbandry practices. Samba, you might mention this when meeting with the district manager. Good luck and congrats on where you have gotten so far!
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Old 05-23-03, 01:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I have problems with a cetain pet store chain around my house. They have always had diseased, sick,dying,and or dead fish, anphibians, and reptiles laying in or around cages. The only departments that are acctually good are the birds and sometimes the small animals i.e. the rodents. I have compalined and tryied to get a job at that one store because i wanted to take care of there sickly animals, and its that one store in the whole chain thats bad. Atleast thay house same type with same type but seperate the sizes in the reptiles, but you always see dried up lizards or snakes in the cage with the live ones. Even with the anphibians. There are always too many crix w/ the lizards and anphibians, and the snakes dont get enough food or water. But they dont care wat one kid thats 16 is saying. And the other large chain wont let me buy live animals from them cuz im not 18 and dont have an adult with me. Ive found private pet stores take care of there animals better in my opinion. But the one im talking about is a 15 minute drive from my house and not a two min. one.
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Old 05-23-03, 04:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Thank you all for your encouragment and support! I know it only takes a second to write a response, but the issue behind this post stands true to all herpers' hearts.

I met with the district manager today, who told me right off hand that he didn't know much about reptiles, and wasn't able to recognize problems with them until I pointed them out. He remained fairly quiet while I talked to his 'reptile specialist'. We disagreed about some things (i.e. that bark is a good substrate for young leopard geckos - yeah right!), but I told the manager if he needed to verify any information he could go to this site and check it out!!!

I really expected that when I got there, the store would have the sick and dying animals 'put away' but to my surprise, many were still on display. There was a sick, dehydrated baby iguana; a young water dragon who was gaping and suffering from mouth rot; about a million baby leopard geckos in terrible to 'okay' shape; four large amevias inside a cramped 5 gallon cage (two males repeatedly mated with a single female, and another female in the cage was already gravid and hiding). There were other animals who just needed a little help but these were the worst cases. The reptile specialist agreed to take the sick animals off display and consult a vet regarding their treatment. After lecturing for about 2 hours, I finally felt they understood that it was a serious issue enough to look into. Like many of you have mentioned, I told the store they can increase profits by taking better care of their animals. I left feeling somewhat like I had been a nusiance, but I told them I'd be back. I will send an update to the coorporate office in a few days, and stay on top of the issue until it is satisfactory. The best part was watching some of the animals being separated and taken into the back where they can rest and gain strength. I will keep posting updates on here, and I really want you guys to do the same if there is a problem pet store in your area. If we all made it clear these animals deserve to be treated with the care and attention that cats and dogs recieve we can get some of these places to change. Thank you for reading my posts and telling me your thoughts and opinions. More updates will arrive soon!
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Old 05-23-03, 04:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Congradulations Samba!!
It's really nice to see somebody making a difference!!

Looking foward to reading the updates.

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Old 05-23-03, 05:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Congrats. I hope i can acctually convince the corprate office over here. I also will update myself. And i also am looking tward your updates.
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Old 05-23-03, 06:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Three cheers and many beers for Samba!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-23-03, 11:11 PM   #30 (permalink)
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ya there is a pet store near my house that is accualy pretty good at keeping there anamals in good condition. excep keeping them is small cages. the only reson i complain (other then there HUGE price mark up) is that they will sell the ocational burm, retic, or emerald tree boa. do you think it is right to sell these anamals in a small local pet shop?
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