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Old 05-16-03, 05:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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ok.. here are a few more details.. the hots are kept in rubbermaid sweater boxes in the basement in an open room with other snakes.. the kids could have gone looking for a corn and opened the wrong box!

and no not all the hots they have are legal.
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Old 05-16-03, 05:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hmmmm Hot snake loose with kid's(bad spot to be in) Children having none or very little fear of snakes(till we teach them to be afraid of them or respect and admire them)This is a very bad situation as a young child will think nothing of picking up a snake(I have seen this numerous times with toddlers and wild garter snakes)With no antivenon close it is a perscription for death and suffering.You never said what kind of snake it was(for a child almost all of them are deadly with out a.v.) and even with a.v. there are no promices either.

Good for you you quite probably saved two children from a sad fate(the snakes will pay the price though which is wrong but probably unavoidable now)There is no excuse for the escape of a hot (Brian Smith will I hope jump on this one)It is one of the biggest fears of the hot keeper(the professional ones anyway) and they go to great lengths to avoid it at all costs.An 8 foot python or boa is far less a risk to a child Than a cobra or even a copper head for that matter.I am still shuddering at the thought of a hot loose in that house.

Hey hot keepers What do you all think on this one?



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Old 05-16-03, 06:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Totally agree that you did the right thing. I have two small children myself & I would not have hesitated. I do believe that any venomous or super aggresive animal should not live in the same house as minor children. A responsible keeper of such animals would love them & their children & house them seperately. Before we got our corns we had considered tarantulas , something I have wanted for a long time. While admiring them in a pet store a gentleman told me that their venom is lethal to children & no matter how "tame" the animal there would always be the risk. My mind did not hesitate to decide no tarantulas til my kids are grown. I'll continue to admire them in stores til then. Anyone who has kids knows there really is no such thing as "child proof". Congrats for taking action. Dar.
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Old 05-16-03, 06:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think it is a really bad situation for the family and all of us hot keepers....... I also think it is not a good idea to keep hots in the same living space as small kids....... Also the people that keep hots without taking the proper precausions should not be keeping them at all....... I take great pride in keeping myself and anyone around my snakes safe from harm....... I only allow 2 people around my snakes uncaged, and only because they are experianced keepers....... Everyone else gets to look at them through glass....... Now if one of my snakes escaped from its cage it would be no big deal because they would never get out of the hot room...... To know this snake was not kept in a hot room makes it even worse....... If these snakes are not kept correctly than they should not be kept at all.......
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Old 05-16-03, 06:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh and tarantula venom is not at all leathal to kids........ Well maybe if you are a little kid cricket.....
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Old 05-16-03, 07:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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So I was wrongly informed ? The shop worker claimed to be an experienced keeper. He claimed while the venom to an adult was like a bad case of the flu it could have deadly consequences for small children. My youngest is 2 & my 1 year old niece is here alot. Do you believe it would be 100% safe ? Even a tiny risk is too much for me. Tarantulas will still be available to me long after my kids are grown & moved out I'm sure ! What do you think Gregg ?
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Old 05-16-03, 08:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Your kids have more of a chance of dieing from a bee sting....... You do not get sick from a tarantula bite........ Unless you are allergic...... The person at the shop does not know a thing if that is what he told you...... And the species that would be kept as pets like rosehairs and pink toes and even red knees are absolutly harmless to people of all sizes........ I have taken bites from rose hairs and suffered no more than two fang marks in my finger....... I did not even swell...... But if you do not feel safe with that, that is OK........ A mothers instinct is strong and nothing to mess with....... I just hate to see someone not do something because they where misinformed........ You can do some research yourself and find that the person at the pet store was just handing you a line of BS....... Too bad there are such inexperianced people working in pet stores these days.....
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Old 05-17-03, 10:56 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Really youve never herad of a dog rippign through the chest of a child while hes still alive ripping at all his in side a shaking his head then biting their neck and shaking till it come out the because i have and i think thats alot worse. besides a vehicle is more dangerous everytime you take anyone in a car you are taking a very high chance of crashing and thats alot worse then dieing by a snake bite my mom a EMT and ive heard and seen the stories dont get me started on that.
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Old 05-17-03, 11:08 AM   #24 (permalink)
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We can't protect kids from everything... no matter how hard you try, you'll never get them to pass a law against dogs or against cars. I mean, you'd have to keep a kid locked up in a padded room and feed is mush in a soft plastic bowl for it to be completely safe forever - and even then!
Yes, dogs kill a lot of people - kids and adults. Yes, car accidents are terrible things and so many people die each week. But those are unavoidable, unless we reduce the speed limit to 10 mph and have half-sedated dogs all the times.

But this is different, keeping a venomous snake within reach of children (children have no fear, they don't understand their own mortality) is like keeping a loaded gun in your kid's drawer, or a jar of bright-coloured cynide pills, or putting a "ricin shaker" beside the salt shaker. It's just plain irresponsible. This is something you CAN protect your kid from - and as a parent have the responsibility to! Just as you teach your kids to look both ways before they cross the street, never to pet a dog they don't know, you DON'T KEEP HOTS IN A HOUSE WITH KIDS. It's plain old common sense that should tell you that.

I mean, if, IF a person had a kid who was well aware of the dangers, and kept their hots in a locked room in 200% escape-proof locked cages, then it might start being acceptable, but under any other circumstance no.

Boas and hots are not the same. Boas are docile, they usually only bite at food or if they are afraid. Hots are different, they are smaller (often), faster (when they strike), and they know they are venomous, they know that's how they protect themselves from a bird swooping down or from a child's grabby hands.

Oh, dogs tend to go straight for the throat, whereas some hot bites are VERY painful. Swelling, burning, pain... Heck, some bites cause your skin to "melt" off.

In conclusion, I agree with pretty much all that has been posted saying it was irresponsible.



lol, I always get a kick out of bond movies where they put a tarantula on his bed to try and kill him, and he has to maneovre his was out so the tarantula won't bite him with it's fatal venom.
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Old 05-17-03, 11:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yeah I see your point now aqua_demon. Ill try not to let anymore rabid wild dogs into the house and stop the demolition derbies in my living room, they were making it hard to watch the tv anyways.

I dont think it realy matters if dieing from a snake bite is more of a pleasant way to die. I seriously think you are missing the point here. Maybe when you start having a family of your own youll understand the value of a childs life and how precious they are, not to mention the value of a safe house where you dont have to fear whats hiding in the dark corners and spaces.
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Old 05-17-03, 02:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The point isn't that a dog or car is more dangerous, the chances a hot will bite if touched are much greater than if you touched a dog!
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Old 05-17-03, 04:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Agua Demon - I understand your point of view... I really do. BUT, what I think you are not 'getting' from the rest of us is this: Car accidents, even dog attaks, etc. are accidental and hard to prevent and predict. We are just trying to say the parents in this case appeared to have full knowledge of the species they were keeping, and knowingly kept these dangerous snakes around young children (in a reportedly unsecured environment).

Sure, we've all had something escape on us; wether it be a harmless gecko or a hot... the bottom line is this: responsible owners will actively search for the animal, and if it is dangerous, as in this case, remove persons (not directly involved with the snakes) from harm until the creature has been found, (i.e., not take a 'Devil May Care' attitude towards the situation).


I also want to add that, until you die from a dog attack, a car accident AND a snake bite, can you sit here and tell someone which was worse, and more painful because I truely believe that answer resides in the particulars. I repect you for giving your honest opinions, despite the criticizims, and hopefully you'll repect and understand ours. If this story had not involved such young and vulnerable children, our opinions would surely be different.

I think I can speak for most of us in saying that, we, as herp keepers, don't need irresponsible herpers in this world making it harder for us to enjoy and keep our own precious pets. There is already tons of responsibility related to their care; some animals require permits and special education with them just to own them. We want people to repect our pets as much as we do, not look at stories such as these and assume we are all uncaring keepers!
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Old 05-17-03, 08:14 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I can understand your opinions, and I'm just saying that none of us know enough about these people to make assumptions about their lifes or call them irresponsible. I know of alot of herp keepers that keep their herps in rubbermaids and everyone has at one time or another had a herp get loose. I agree that more precautions should have been taken but some of these replies have been really badd, saying that thir badd parents because of one mistake and such forth its just unnessacary because none of us know enough about them. I was just trying to make the point that everytime you get into a car you are risking the life of yourself and everyone with you. But please stop making rude assumptions about their lifes based on things you dont know at the most what they accedently did makes them irresponsible.
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Old 05-17-03, 08:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I disagree once again that i have read and heard of dogs killing kids much worse and more painful then the bite of a hott snake and a car reck plz that ten hundred more times as keeping a hott herp and what make them irrensponsible because they lossed a snake plzz
I have never heard such and Idiotic statement!!
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