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Old 05-12-03, 02:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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..I knew that would spark a conversation; And yes I would like to see other pictures when they want to throw about the topic. It would help deter people from feeding live.. Seeing the same pic over and over dosnt get the point across, and everytime I see it I just think, Hey, why do morons try feeding live to a non feeding snake? I'm sure non-infomed people who see this same pic would think something of the same.. Now if I seen a Burm or a retic which in most cases are aggressive feeders and had a logical story behind it, then I'm sure the point would hit me. or at least several random pic ove the same topic. Maybe it' because I do everything natural for my animals that feeding live is stuck in my head. (Yes my animals get natural sunlight.) Or maybe it's because I'm messed up in the head.. Also, I'm not going to look over the internet just to see thee things, because I'm aware of what can happen. My point is, if you want to ge the pont across dont use the same animal. Lets also not forget it's like the 3rd time Ive seen this same pic on this site alone. But hey, live and let live..
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Old 05-12-03, 03:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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In the case of the Science Centre, the boas in question were CB and had been started on F/T prey. Poor things have no idea about killing food. We have converted several snakes from live feed to thawed over time. It is not always easy, and we have been quite creative in our tricks to get them to eat thawed. The only live we ever feed is pinky mice or rats, and only as a last resort for hatchlings. In my opinion, the hatchlings that do not start feeding on F/T prey have a compromised appetite from the start, and in the wild would have probably become a meal before they found one. I have force fed baby snakes, and fed live to get them going, but would prefer never to have to feed live. We used to raise rats as feeders, and I have been the recipient of rat bites. Needless to say, we do not raise rats anymore, and I would cut the teeth out with side cutters and make sure it smacked its head on the cage door on its way in.
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Old 05-12-03, 03:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think the excuse of feeding live is natural, is utter and pure and unadulterated and completely BS!!!!!!!

CAPTIVITY IS NOT NATURAL, therefore nothing we do in captivity is considered natural. In nature, snakes do not live in small enclosures, snakes and prey have avenues of escape that are just not possible in captivity. Feeding live in captivity (let me correct that) is NOT NATURAL. Please do not try to excuse your blantant disregard for your reptiles safety with this "it's natural" BS excuse. I'm really glad you haven't managed to kill any of your reptiles, in your 14yrs, however. Please DO NOT advise any newbies to feed live, please, please! For their sake and their reptiles sake, keep your live experiences to yourself.

If you do everything natural for your herps, please do not buy any more, buying, keeping, breeding herps is no way natural.

Sorry if I've come on a little strong, but I really can't take any more of this "it's natural" BS, it's one of my biggest pet peeves. Why not just fess up, and just say you like watching them kill, or that you can't kill the prey yourself.
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Old 05-12-03, 03:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Burms are aggresive feeders. But I myself have a personal story about them....

WAAAAY before I even knew about reptiles our neighbor had a large burmese python living in a bedroom that had been customized for it....well it wasn't a proper set up but it wasn't just like throw in a normal bedroom.....anyways.....it was between 8-11 feet...I can't really say exactly, but definitly more than two feet longer than my Dad at the tiem who is 6 feet.

Anyways the neighbor threw in a live large rat...and by large I mean those JUMBO sewer rats...(lol)...the next day the rat had chewed through so much of its neck it was almost decaptated. I don't know what state this snake was in to let this happen, I don't know if the food item was a proper size but it DID happen and my family talks about it to this day. These people had been feeding the burm live all its life.

It can happen to anyone who feed live, at any time, with any snake.

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Old 05-12-03, 04:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hmm...

Well, lets consider the fact that most creatures, even snakes, live in fairly small niches. And Captivity may not be natural, but that don't mean taking away everything that you could give to them.
You can provide sunlight.. You do it. Most of the people I know do it. And Im aware that sunlight is natural stuff.. Forgive me if I'm wrong on that. People use dirt, chips, mulch of some sort for bedding.. Sheesh, that's naturalistic enough for me.. (not counting the laziness of some people who uses butcher paper or paper of the same sort as bedding for healthy herps)
I myself prefer sand and dirt.. Um, so by where Im sitting, you should provide naturalistic adventures if it's possible. Sure there may be a few walls of glass, wood or plastic but don't limit everything..
And feeding live or dead in captivity is natural. Eating is natural.
and that's not what I was trying to express in the earlier post. You're pinpointing the wrong parts... Blantant excuse? Forgive me, I wasnt aware you kept your snakes in sweater boxes with
flexwatts for heat.. Again, I was't advising anyone to feed live, or dead; mouse or rat. I was saying, Hey.. You want to deter people from an act, then use more than one picture.

::That last sentence.. Read that.. That's the point.. ::
And keeping my ways of keeping to myself is not going to happen, unless of course, you do the same. And for he record, isn't brumation natural, and don't you need to do that to most of herp populations to do what? Oh yea, another natural thing.. Reproducing...

""If you do everything natural for your herps, please do not buy any more, buying, keeping, breeding herps is no way natural.""

Forgive me, wasn't aware natraul keeping is so evil and disliked.
Buying is natural.. Think about it. Keeping is natural.. Think about that as well.. And breeding.. Not natural? Mother nature is a wicked woman..

""Sorry if I've come on a little strong, but I really can't take any more of this "it's natural" BS, it's one of my biggest pet peeves. Why not just fess up, and just say you like watching them kill, or that you can't kill the prey yourself.""


Eh, no worries.. Feeding live or dead is natural.. Snakes do feed on carion so uh.. Hmm..
And fess up? Sure, I love to watch nature in action wheather it's feeding, breeding, fighting, or what-knot.. Killing is natural..
And, yes.. Killing them myself is somewhat sad because I cherish all life.. Not just a snake that I paid more for then a feeder..
But then again.. I am pro food chain..

I will type in caps to see if this will put my point across..

YOU WANT SOMEONE TO FEED DEAD, DON'T USE THE SAME PIC OVER AND OVER.. USE MULTIPLE PICS.
I also understand it could happen to any herp. That's not the discussion...
Xain
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Old 05-12-03, 04:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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well I was reading this thread and thaught I was the only one that would post that pic.

I was the one that posted the prior thread.

Anyway if it is disturbing pic's you are looking for well i will hook you up here you go.
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Old 05-12-03, 04:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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And here is the worst one I could find.
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Old 05-12-03, 04:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Yes of course, sorry. How's that?

Hmm...

Well, lets consider the fact that most creatures, even snakes, live in fairly small niches. And Captivity may not be natural, but that don't mean taking away everything that you could give to them.
You can provide sunlight.. You do it. Most of the people I know do it. And Im aware that sunlight is natural stuff.. Forgive me if I'm wrong on that. People use dirt, chips, mulch of some sort for bedding.. Sheesh, that's naturalistic enough for me.. (not counting the laziness of some people who uses butcher paper or paper of the same sort as bedding for healthy herps)
I myself prefer sand and dirt.. Um, so by where Im sitting, you should provide naturalistic adventures if it's possible. Sure there may be a few walls of glass, wood or plastic but don't limit everything..
And feeding live or dead in captivity is natural. Eating is natural.
and that's not what I was trying to express in the earlier post. You're pinpointing the wrong parts... Blantant excuse? Forgive me, I wasnt aware you kept your snakes in sweater boxes with
flexwatts for heat.. Again, I was't advising anyone to feed live, or dead; mouse or rat. I was saying, Hey.. You want to deter people from an act, then use more than one picture.

::That last sentence.. Read that.. That's the point.. ::
And keeping my ways of keeping to myself is not going to happen, unless of course, you do the same. And for he record, isn't brumation natural, and don't you need to do that to most of herp populations to do what? Oh yea, another natural thing.. Reproducing...

""If you do everything natural for your herps, please do not buy any more, buying, keeping, breeding herps is no way natural.""

Forgive me, wasn't aware natraul keeping is so evil and disliked.
Buying is natural.. Think about it. Keeping is natural.. Think about that as well.. And breeding.. Not natural? Mother nature is a wicked woman..

""Sorry if I've come on a little strong, but I really can't take any more of this "it's natural" BS, it's one of my biggest pet peeves. Why not just fess up, and just say you like watching them kill, or that you can't kill the prey yourself.""


Eh, no worries.. Feeding live or dead is natural.. Snakes do feed on carion so uh.. Hmm..
And fess up? Sure, I love to watch nature in action wheather it's feeding, breeding, fighting, or what-knot.. Killing is natural..
And, yes.. Killing them myself is somewhat sad because I cherish all life.. Not just a snake that I paid more for then a feeder..
But then again.. I am pro food chain..

I will type in caps to see if this will put my point across..

YOU WANT SOMEONE TO FEED DEAD, DON'T USE THE SAME PIC OVER AND OVER.. USE MULTIPLE PICS.
I also understand it could happen to any herp. That's not the discussion...
Xain






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Old 05-12-03, 04:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 05-12-03, 04:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Ah, good deal.
Glad someone followed on what I was saying.. Especially it not being a ball.
Those, should be included on a post like this. Not just a ball..
Thanks, Chondro.
Your snakes?
Xain

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Old 05-12-03, 04:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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no thos are not my snakes I would never fall victime to such stupidity. it comes from one of my books ''what's wrong with my snake'' BTW the boa was attacted by a ferret not a rat just thaught I would share.
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Old 05-12-03, 06:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I would think this could only happen if you leave a mouse or rat in with your snake, and not watch it. So it would only happen to crappy keepers.
 
Old 05-12-03, 06:31 PM   #28 (permalink)
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If you think it can only happen if you leave the prey item in there for a period of time, you're sadly mistaken. All it takes is one bite to potentially be fatal (either outright or through infection), and that bite can even happen if you're dangling the mouse by the tail. Just because it hasn't happened "in all your years of keeping snakes" doesn't mean it can't. S**t happens. There is next to no reason for us, as responsible keepers, to not do all we can to protect our pets from unnecessary harm.

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Old 05-12-03, 06:46 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Very well stated, my collective rodent friend! I've spent years holding the hands of crying owners who've said "But nothing like this has ever happened before and I've kept snakes for XX years...." while the vets try and repair the damage caused by a live feeder. Saw maybe 10 to 20 cases a week of mutilated snakes for 15 years and am too lazy to do the math.
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Old 05-12-03, 06:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Well, that just seems logical to me.. P.S. never owned a snake! lol
 
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