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Old 04-26-03, 08:52 PM   #61 (permalink)
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ya man, steve is a load of crap!
like other people say they could write a paragraph on all the problem but befor i go on a rant about some stupid australian i just want to say this. stick with the guys like jeff corwin or mark O'shea. people who accualy know what there are doing and dont cach Gaboon Vipers with there bear hands. well that my 2 cents
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Old 04-26-03, 09:28 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I think that on a controversial thread like this that has changed specifics several times, it is wise to read all information.
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Old 04-26-03, 09:59 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Hmm...I certainly dont think Steve is a load of crap. And just cause he catches Gaboons with his bear hands doesnt necessarily mean he doesnt know what hes doing. Its not like he holds them up to his face or anything. In fact, he holds them far enough away that the snakes mouth couldnt even reach his own body. And maybe you dont watch close enough, but his eyes will hardly ever leave the snake that he is holding. And he is very careful with them too.

The fact that Steve has never been bitten speaks volumes about his ability to interact with the herps. In fact, it establishes the idea that he knows what hes doing and he isnt another moron who likes to impress his friends.

The only good point I see on this board is BWSmiths about stupid people trying to imitate Steve and getting themselves killed in the process.

Oh, and by the way, both Corwin and O'Shea free-handle deadly snakes.
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Old 04-26-03, 10:35 PM   #64 (permalink)
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STEVE IS MY HERO A$$HOLES!~!!!
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Old 04-26-03, 10:48 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I like Steve. I think hes incredibly knowledgable. Who cares if he stages his finds or not.. He does alot of good for reptiles in his country. His techniques may not be as sound as others, or up too others expectations, but heck its the reptile industry; everybody has their own techniques they claim are the best.

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if you watch his show, he always tells viewers never to handle snakes the way he does.
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Old 04-27-03, 12:15 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
but heck its the reptile industry; everybody has their own techniques they claim are the best.
But we are not talking about a Corn Snake and we are not talking about husbandry. These are deadly animals. It is like someone doing a show about guns and everytime staring down the barrel and pulling thrigger while saying "I am a professional and have done it this way for years, but don't try this at home".

Quote:
Who cares if he stages his finds or not
I agree.

But I submit: For those who think that beacause he has been handling that way for years or that his methods are OK........ I want to see WHO has workied with these snakes. Who has worked with Mambas, Taipans, Spitters? Who has had a Boomer steal a hook?

And I will even get a little butal here. This is not meant to offend anyone in particular, although it probably will. Those who condone his handing, are dooming us all. He is going to be a contributing factor the the BAN of all reptiles as pets. The HSUS, API, and PETA are drooling over this issue waiting for it to become enought o build a case against. EVERY YEAR the HSUS proposes a bill to Congress to BAN ALL herps in the U.S. And it is near getting passed! All they need is a few people getting bit by ratters and saying "But Steve Irwin did it" to get it through. I don't think most realize how much it effects all of us. Noone seems to see the big picture. I help firght legislation, ignorance and ophidiophobia every day. What do you do to preserve our hobby and our passion? Believe it ornot, keeping herps is a RIGHT, not a priviledge. And it CAN and WILL be taken away! Unless we pose to the world that what the select few that makes the news is NOT how we all are. We need tos tand as one and say "NO! We are NOT liek Croc Hunter just because we keep snakes (or venomous snakes)! We DO NOT practice haphazard and dangerous handling practices! We DO NOT condone how he works with them!" WE HAVE NO ACTIVISTS on our side. But outr enemies (Humane Society, PETA, and API) have thousand of people and a mound of money. Despite how safe you think you are, you are not. If yo thinkthat "I only breed ball pythons or leopard geckos, what one man does is not my concern and it does not effect me". then you are living in a dream world. EVERYTHING that ANY herp keeper does reflects on us all (sadly). The sands are running out in the herp hourglass, and unless we start to police ourselves, the the government will police us, and that will be a complete BAN! And I for one will be an outlaw. They can pry my snakes from my cold, dead hands!

This is not a simple issue, and it is not all Steve's fault. But it must be acknowledged that he is a piece of the puzzle. I would never doubt his intentions or his contributions. But with fame comes responsibility. He has yet to realize that. We are at WAR people. We are at war to preserve our hobby and the right to keep the animals we love. Ignorance and misinformation will be the death of this hobby. If you doubt anything I said, look it up. it is all in their agendas and Congress records. And for those who don't know: HSUS = Humane Society of the United States, API = Animal Protection Institute, and PETA = People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Boy those all sound pretty noble...... and they are.... AS LONG AS IT IS A MAMMAL!

i'm done.
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Old 04-27-03, 12:45 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Dang BW, you oughta run for President or something. Wow...
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Old 04-27-03, 08:03 AM   #68 (permalink)
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I don't think Steve Irwin is feeding the fire all that much. The problem would be all the irresponsable keepers and the fact most people are afraid of snakes. As far as kids go the parents should be teaching you don't mess with snakes. Shaggybill sounds like we're neighbors.
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Old 04-27-03, 10:10 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I totally agree with you on most parts. First off, I wasn't aware that all of this was going on and Steve was used too do this. However, it's still the mass general public too blame on herps. The ones who sell rattlers to the newcoming herpers who just dont have a clue. Theres such a chain of responsibility here. I find it incredibly hard to blame a guy on television who says "NEVER do this at home" Yeah, his methods are stupid. Doesnt mean people have to follow them.

I would be incredibly surprised if this bill was passed anytime soon.

You didn't offend me if you thought you were going too. I agree with you. Hopefully this law wont be past.
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Old 04-27-03, 01:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Steve Irwin Rules! Just leave the dude alone!
 
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Old 04-27-03, 01:38 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Just because I haven't had hot snakes doesn't mean I can't comment on his use of bare hands for his entire life. I am tired of being lumped into an "idiot" catagory by some herpers because I CHOOSE not to own retics, or I choose not to own GTPS, I am sick of being called a "newbie" because I'd rather have colubrids over pythons. I am totally tired of this "special, I do this and know this guy" club. Not that you are like this but I get this mentality a lot.

If everything to do with hots is going to be talked about ONLY by hot keepers then nothing is going to get done for your "cause" either. I don't see how my not having hots has anything to do with asking why he might be more comfortable with his bare hands. HE MIGHT BE MORE COMFORTABLE! I am not saying its wrong or right, but you can't tell him he isn't more comfortable that way.

I think everyone here understands your point. And my cornsnakes aren't preventing me from understanding it, or showing that I have less knowledge then someone else. If all that matters is who you know and if I am doing more than someone else then I'd rather not compete.

If there are "sides" then I am on the animals side. IF that is what is best. Not the human side. Not saying I think banning herps is best, but I am saying I am not fighting for humans rights to do anything, if I was fighting it would be because these animals might not make it in the world we are crowding and ruining and captive kept snakes might be all that's left for some species. Which is what I believe in.

BWSmith you are so well written but my views don't match yours always. Although I love all your points and I agree with all of them almost No I don't keep hots, no I don't do education presentations (oh god public speaking ekk!!!!), but I firmly believe it is not a RIGHT to keep animals in our home, but a priviledge.

As soon as things become "rights" then you have a bigger issue, that even you complain about. Each nut owning snakes because its his "right" instead of proving he deserves the priviledge to care for a living creature.

I believe having even a PUNY cornsnake in my home is a priviledge and not a right. I am priviledged to be able to have such an amazing creature in my home. I am priviledged to have a community to talk about husbandry. I am priviledged to be able to keep snakes in a captive enviroment and have them breed. Its not my "right" to force things to breed, or keep them in a home. Those are my beliefs. I feel as soon as people start throwing the "Its my right!!!!" into it, it becomes about PEOPLE....not animals.

But while I believe all this, you are so right. Things like this, wrong or right, will RUIN the priviledge to own herps. Because someone will take it away, or limit it severly. Now if that means the community on a large needs to ignore people like Croc Hunter, I don't know. Because I can't for the life of me figure out how to make the situation with this guy or people like him better. You know what I mean? All you can do is what you are doing. Showing people that hot owners aren't croc hunters, and in real life, there is a huge danger to following anything but the proper handling methods. Period.

Just MHO.
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Old 04-27-03, 02:14 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Old 04-27-03, 03:56 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I own toads, and the tendancy is that people ask me, let them go, you didn't pay for them... my experience with these american toads was direct from start, from the egg, to what i have now, even though they didn't cost me an arm and a leg i chose to give them a good life. people shuldn't base herps on size or cost, because to come down to the bear facts, we chose to keep them for their beuty, uniqueness and to give them life. I dunno why i rambled on like this, but i read two posts above sayin' somethin' about being called a newb cause people dont own retics etc/ et/c i totally agree with ya like i said, i put onnes of time and a fair bit of money into enclosures and pets, and its not about how much you paid for the animal...

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Old 04-27-03, 04:02 PM   #74 (permalink)
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i shouulda read the above posts before i started talkin', now i feel kinda stupit!
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Old 04-27-03, 07:18 PM   #75 (permalink)
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well dozer.... you are a pretty stupid guy..


Lol just playing mike:P

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