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Old 04-25-03, 06:58 PM   #46 (permalink)
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imo, i think steve is a top fella! yes hes wacky and outlandish, but thats half the charm to him. ive heard so many stories about his show being faked, that he puts the snakes in fridges to cool them down and make them more calm. nonsense. when he was walking through the forest that had burnt down and he was finding skinks badly burnt or dead. that look in his eyes couldnt be faked. or the time he moved the 2 salties from small fould enclosures and moved them to new ones, he did that from a great love and respect fro reptiles. so what if some of his catches are set ups. mant natural history programs take months to film and these include several set ups. how many times do people see snakes eat in the wild? but how many shows have you seen that shows a snake eating.
oh well enough out of me for one night.
ps i think mark o'shea is another top bloke. slightly mad, but aren't we all. again he is another guy lucky enough to be on tv after years and years of hard work and low pay working in zoos
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Old 04-25-03, 07:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I like to watch him. He's amusing, which I think is the whole point.
Old 04-25-03, 08:28 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Ok now I am gonna have to bitch-slap some king cobras to show them who's da man! lol

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Old 04-25-03, 09:04 PM   #49 (permalink)
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sorry I dident read all the posts::

I have spoke to a guy who has worked with steve and he said he is very respectful of the animals, none of it is staged, and steve is a great guy to work with. I get the guys name if you want..
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Old 04-25-03, 10:09 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Lets not forget he is in Australia he fids herps like we find squirels and skunks.
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Old 04-25-03, 10:09 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I will add one little side note.

I don't think that most people can understand my personal problems with Steve. I offer a great deal of educational programs. In fact Dept of Natural Resources told me that I clock more hours than anyone else in the state! And alot of that is Venomous Education. As a general rule, no venomous are removed from the enclosures during a program. But often, I let people go to the back of the room as i remove them from the tupperware and put them in the show enclosures. Gives them more of a feeling of how they move and react and definately helps in them paying attention during the programs. For one thing, not a program goes bywithout at LEAST 10 people asking about Steve or comparing me to him. Adults are not so bad. I can explain what each piece of handling equipment is and how and why I use it and explain WHY Steve has unsafe handling practices. Kids are the worst, particularly early teens. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard "Are you like the Croc Hunter?" or even worse(and most often) "Croc Hunter doesn't use anyof that stuff". I try to explain that his handling practices are dangerous and are NOT the "accepted" methods. But alot of eyes roll. Let's face facts. He is on TV. Of course it is entertainment, and he needs ratings to stay on the air. And yes he does his 2 second blurb of "I am a professional, don't do this". But another fact is that he is a HERO to many people. He is what many aspire to be. He may have been handling them his entire life, but others have not. And he is their "Video Mentor". As with anyonein the public eye, and particularly those are are considered "heros", there comes responsibility. He has got to think beyond himself. "Do as I say, not as I do" does not work. People learn by example. I have done and still do several handling techniques that I do not advertise. It is unlikely that you will ever see a pic of me pinning a hot posted on a forum. It is not because it is not done, I don't post them because it is the most dangerous part of venomous husbandry and it should be avoided if possible. So I don't want those aspiring hot keepers to think that it is commonplace or daily activity. I am very high profile, both on the internet and in real life. Because of that, I take a certain responibility to monitor what I say, what I do and what I post (once it is written, it is forever). And I am not alone. Many responsible hot keepers are very selctive of the same things. And for the same reason. I never want to hear (or read) "but, BWSmith did it".

And I also realize that adults should know the difference and parents should convey that the kids should not do that. Responsibility, blah, blah, blah. Reality check! Humans are idiots. And I know, Darwinism. But if Steve can save one idiot just by using a hook, isn't it worth it? After all, even if they are an idiot,they still deserve to live or the govt would be empty

Let me drop a few examples. Remember that these are off the top of my head from memory so some of the facts might not be 100% accurate, but the jist is the same.

In PA (I think), there was a rogue Alligator in a local pond (obviously a pet turned loose). So a local mother decided to take her two sons, I believe 10 and 14, to go try to catch it. She was quoted as saying "They watch Crocodile Hunter all the time, I am sure they can handle it".

A mountain biker (can't remember where), saw a rattler and decided to tail it. Got bit. Quaoted later as saying "Croc Hunter did it so I fugured I could too".

The list is endless. And yes, these are idiots. Luckily noone has died (to my knowledge) mimicking Steve. But it is only a matter of time. Idiots are everywhere.

I won't even go into the astronomical increase in the sale of venomoids since Steve became mainstream.

I appreciate all he has done for wildlife and conservation. He has done more than any of us could hope for in 10 lifetimes. But now that he is established, it is time to realize that he IS a hero to so many, and monkey see, monkey do. I would never ask that he give up any entheusiasm (sp) or passion. Or even not handle any type of species. But at least use a hook. Trust me, there is enough drama hooking an irate cobra. Even Boomslangs tend to "steal" hooks and we end up throwing bothe hte hook and the snake wrapped around the handle. I think that is exciting. Bottom line is that there is no need for not using a hook. Not using any handling equipment for his first run in with a LARGE adult Balck mamba ............. that was about the dumbest thing I have ever seen. It is not like any other snake he has ever dealt with. He can work with a thousand Taipans.... I tis NOT a mamba! Or holding a newborn Eastern Diamondback int he palm of his hand. And a thousand other examples. But I digress, I am getting off on a rant when I was about to close.

I know for a fact that Midwest (the only handling equipment that I use), offered to send him a killer set of handling equipment for this very purpose. They even offered to not use it in advertising if he would just USE IT. No reply. I would bet everything that herequires his staff to use equipment when handling snakes in the zoo. How hard is it to use a freakin hook. It would not take away from the ratings. Use it once per episode and work up from there. I would actually be able to sit through an episode without yelling at the TV.

But to the original issue of staging. I have no problem with it. Just don't make it so obvious on occasion. And for the croc wrangling.......... i think he does good...... after you have worked with crocs and gators, if you have a better way, it would be welcomed by all "Big Game" Herpers. I guess I feel so strongly about his handling of venomous because it effects me directly and regularly.

Hopefully all of that made sense. My wrist hurts.
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Old 04-25-03, 10:12 PM   #52 (permalink)
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After posting, I guess that was NOT a "little" side note.


Lets not forget he is in Australia he fids herps like we find squirels and skunks.
I would venture to say that we can find more hot herps in South GA, FL, or TX in a day than they can in a week. All of the "visitors" say that the South (US) has some of the best herping in the world.
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Old 04-25-03, 10:24 PM   #53 (permalink)
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But my thing is those things are true for a MILLION different TV shows.

I have read when someone handles hots with a hook after YEARS and years, the hook becomes like more than a tool, and you can learn to use it much like the extension of your own hand, your own body. You have to be able to, to use the effectively. I don't keep hots so not sure if this is true or not. But on the premise that it IS indeed like this, maybe Steve was handling hot snakes from the age of 12 without a hook. Maybe its at a point for him where he can't use a hook ? He doesn't know how to use a hook ?

Does that make any sense? Like obviously being in the public eye he should have changed his methods and he COULE learn, but I figure there must be SOME reason why he refuses/doesn't, and I highly doubt he started freehandling just for ratings, and I am sure he was doing long before anyone was watching him. So thats all I could come up with. I haven't ever heard his reasoning. Maybe someone else has.

I am curious as to why he hasn't been bitten as well. And I wonder if he ever will be bitten in the future.

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Old 04-26-03, 12:12 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Marisa, I think he hasnt been bitten for the very reason you just said. He has been free-handling snakes ever since he was a wee little boy and he knows what hes doing. I think you made a very good point about him maybe not being comfortable with a hook. Yeah, he could learn how, but maybe he likes how he does it and sees no need to change.

BW, you also made some good points about him being in the publics eye and such. This is a hard issue to decide where I stand.

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Old 04-26-03, 01:09 AM   #55 (permalink)
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everybody has a lot of good points there i dont know a lot of people here and i never handled a hot myself and it will probably never happen . BWSmith you seem to know a lot about hots more then a lot of people here i hope that i did not offend you in any way cause it was not my intentions but you have a VERY good point by saying that people are stupid . lots of people want to give it a shot to see if they can do it like steve or any other crazy guy that does awesome stuff ... how many people have died trying to fly like superman or trying to do jumps with their cars or motorcycle like some daredevils . Its almost impossible to prevent peoples from doing stupid things like that but when it comes to children who is the person to blame ? i remember when i was a child i really wanted to be like adults that does cool stuff whoever they were but my mom was always there to put me back on my feet telling me that i shouldnt do stupid things like getting myself killed and she explained to me why ...

thats why i think its more about education from our parents than about some dude on tv doing crazy stuff

btw in my previous post by you i meant everyone i wasnt pointing at anyone in particular sorry if there was some misunderstanding
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Old 04-26-03, 12:56 PM   #56 (permalink)
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everyone keeps talking about the fact that steve uses a stick for handling hots and how it should be a hook or tongs but nobody has mentioned how many times that mark o'shea( who does use tongs and hooks ) has been bitten and invenomated

just a thought ???
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Old 04-26-03, 01:01 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I like to watch him.. Lighten up on the poor guy.
Old 04-26-03, 04:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I *personally* LOVE Steve Irwin...I think the work he does and his show are quite beneifcial to not only the herp world but the animal kingdom as well...

I was watching the croc hunter this morning, the episode with all of the primates at some conservation/sanctuary....he was so amazed and taken with the animals...I truly believe that he holds all of the animals he works with with a certain respect. I think he motivates people to hold respect for all animals, and how remarkable they all are, from the biggest elephant to the tiniest spider.

And yes, Terry's hair could definately use some help.
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Old 04-26-03, 04:14 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I wonder if they are reading this right now.. Wouldn't that be wild?
Old 04-26-03, 07:27 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I didn't read all the posts here, to many. lol. but just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
I love Steve and all the work he has done. I have noticed that Terri doesn't handle the hots like Steve does. This is probably because Steve has been doing it since he was a very young boy with his father and alone. Sometimes he uses sticks, sometimes he uses his bare hands.
Most of you have watched Jeff Corwin, I love his shows as well, and I have seen him handle hots with his bare hands as well. He just watches more closely and doesn't have that hypertension that Steve has when handling them. That excitement is what draws me to Steve's shows more than Jeff's, but I like them both. However,I do remember there was a couple episodes that Jeff screwed up and admitted it. Once when a mock viper bit him, he said "Now I really hope it is a mock viper or I"m dead." and the other when he was handling a viper and let it get too lose and it could have bit him right in the face, but instead it looked for the nearest tree branch to make a get away. He was rather relieved. So, I think it isn't just Steve. But right now Steve is one of the most popular figures in the herp world so of course he is going to get bad publisity.
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