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Old 04-18-03, 12:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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If you read my post, I never claim to know for a fact what my snake is feeling if it feels anything at all. I say he "seems" to be relaxed or whatever. It's pretty obvious when a snake seems stressed so I just take it that it "seems" content to be out when displaying relaxed type of behaviors. We'd all love to think that our herps enjoy something or have some kind of feeling but the truth is they most likely don't and we wont find out either way for quite some time.

Now, would the snake choose to go out? That's a good question. I don't think the snake would choose to go to a blessing per say! (who knows!!!) but I do think that pet snake do have the desire to explore outside their cage. If not, how do you explain my BP's trying to get out almost everynight for hours on end and snakes escaping in general?

So this debate can never truly be answered. Would a snake enjoy an outing? I would think so because it's something new to explore, etc. but on the other hand, what we give the snake to explore and what it would choose are two completely different things. A snake would explore dark corners and prefer not being seen as opposed to being brought out to a park where there are people and other animals.

But how does one know that the snake doesn't like the outing? It can't tell you that either!

Hence why I try to "read" my snake as well as I can and respect it's "mood" or whatever else you want to call it!

This is a very interesting discussion indeed!

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Old 04-18-03, 12:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't think it is fair to say snakes do or do not have feelings because they can't talk, although it is pretty certain that they don't you could never really know without them telling you which they can't. We are all animals though so why shouldn't they have thoughts and feelings like us you could say we have bigger brains but we don't use all our brain, i'm almost certain cats are more intalligent than humans.

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Old 04-18-03, 12:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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man you ppl should be posting on the agrsive snake thread that is the debat that is going on right now.

but on a flipe side we have all ben to reptile shows and I find there is nothing more stressful for them then that. But some of the most respected ppl still bring there animals there and risc the healt and well bieng but they still do it.
Can you imagine what would hapen is a few animals have IBD that would be a disater.
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Old 04-18-03, 01:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Funny ....blessing every pet. I never heard of that. Be sure that temps don't climb high inside the tupperware. It might die in a few minutes.
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Old 04-18-03, 01:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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i say its stupid to take a snake anywhere unless it must be done like selling a snake shipping a snake or a vet trips snakes captive snakes have WEAK immune systems since they dont have to figth anything off taking them out side exposes them to bacteria they normally dont have to deal with in there enclosure
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Old 04-18-03, 05:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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OK, I take my snakes to area schools every year for educational purposes. It helps more people see that snakes are fascinating creatures, not to be feared, but to be admired. The snakes don't "seem" to mind, as they are very calm and relaxed, and the kids AND teachers enjoy it immensely. Just my little part, cause I believe education is the key for future herpers, and maybe a lessening of irrational fear for the lay person. And you think THAT is stupid??? Makes me wonder ................
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Old 04-18-03, 06:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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P.S. Snakes don't have moods or emotions. Human qualities and one of many put on reptiles for reasons unknown to me. You'd probably be surprised at what a snake is built to do in a normal day and what, if given the choice, a snake (particularily a BP) would choose to do.
Prolly the same thing most of us guys would do if in the wild..
Eat, sleep, eat, sleep, eat some more then poop and scratch......
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Old 04-18-03, 06:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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[i]... but on a flipe side we have all ben to reptile shows and I find there is nothing more stressful for them then that....[/B]
I'm sure educational shows and the likes are about the same. In any case...I think it's a personal choice and that the owner of the animal should take cues from the animal as to how much to handle, cart around and expose it to others.

Just my humble opinion.

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Old 04-18-03, 06:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It's not that big a deal. I wouldn't take her if I thought that I would be stressing her. It's not like I'm going to wrap her around my neck and run around. It's a very lovely event. I just want to make sure that she is ok with the ride out and back and such, what with her being away from home for so long.

As a matter of fact, I KNOW that she quite enjoys being handled and taken out. She is mellow and inquisitive, and she practically wrestles me when I try to put her back in her tank. My rosy could probably care less for an outing, but I think that it will be a real treat for her.

I didn't mean to start such a heated debate. It almost started to sound like kingsnake on this thread......
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Old 04-18-03, 08:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
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...

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As a matter of fact, I KNOW that she quite enjoys being handled and taken out.

Well I'm glad you KNOW that she enjoys that. I guess we can now call you the Snake Wisperer.

Can you come over and tell me what my female Ball Pythons are thinking and why they aren't ovulating yet? That'd be nice.
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Old 04-18-03, 11:59 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The reason she wrestles you is because she wants to escape or is afraid that when you put her down you will attack and eat her
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Old 04-19-03, 12:10 AM   #27 (permalink)
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whats the whole point of this discussion? people can say whatever they want and othere's will still do what they want, arguing who is right and who is wrong is pointless. what has been said are peoples views on this subject, getting ignorant and loud about it won't change a thing. People are still going to do as they please......enjoy what you have and happy herping!
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Old 04-19-03, 02:27 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Well said Joe!

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Old 04-19-03, 03:00 AM   #29 (permalink)
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whats the whole point of this discussion? people can say whatever they want and othere's will still do what they want, arguing who is right and who is wrong is pointless. what has been said are peoples views on this subject, getting ignorant and loud about it won't change a thing. People are still going to do as they please......enjoy what you have and happy herping!
Well then what's the purpose of a public forum to discuss reptiles at all then? Huh? I don't understand your point.

As for this thread, I think it is/was great. Lots of people said lots of intelligent things, and if I was a noo-bee to reptiles in general, or snakes in particular, I would be writing this stuff down to learn more. I've been breeding snakes for 12 years and I totally thought all the repsonses were great, even if I didn't agree with them. And isn't that what a public forum is all about?
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Old 04-19-03, 03:31 AM   #30 (permalink)
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....

Quote:
If you read my post, I never claim to know for a fact what my snake is feeling if it feels anything at all. I say he "seems" to be relaxed or whatever. It's pretty obvious when a snake seems stressed so I just take it that it "seems" content to be out when displaying relaxed type of behaviors. We'd all love to think that our herps enjoy something or have some kind of feeling but the truth is they most likely don't and we wont find out either way for quite some time.
I did read your post. And I read this one too. And all I get from it is that you seem to think that your snakes are either calm and relaxed or stressed and flighty. No in between? I think that that's generalizing snake behaviour and is not altogether accurate.

Quote:
I don't think the snake would choose to go to a blessing per say! (who knows!!!) but I do think that pet snake do have the desire to explore outside their cage. If not, how do you explain my BP's trying to get out almost everynight for hours on end and snakes escaping in general?
So you observe your snake trying to squeeze out of its surroundings and scale the cage walls etc etc etc and you interpret this as the snake trying to escape? I find that very interesting because I highly doubt that Ball Pythons have a concept of being caged. I don't honestly think that my snakes are plotting to escape at night when they become active because they aren't happy being in "jail". They don't have that level of self consciousness. They are sentient, I'll give them that, but they lack consciousness so there is no way they can conceptualize being caged. They are simply trying to get somewhere because the cage is not meeting one or more of their requirements at that moment in time. Nothing more.

As for "fresh air" and being out in the open, well I have to disagree there as well (big surprise eh?). They don't respire like you or I do. They don't take a big breathe and go "ahhhhhh flavour country" or "this fresh air makes me feel so alive". It just doesn't happen. They are fossorial (bad term) by nature and spent a majority of time underground in crummy burrows in hot hot Africa. I don't picture wild Ball Pythons gathering to breathe in the fresh air and romp in the open together. They haven't evolved to do that, and for some reason, people want to force that on them.

And that's what I don't understand. I don't really care. I mean, you could BBQ and eat them for all I care. But don't theorize and say false statements to justify things that I very well know a BP will not "enjoy".

Thoughts?
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