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Old 04-17-03, 08:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Hello Everyone!

Ahh once again a debate that i can relate to! hehe Remember at all times that im one of the most calm people here when it comes to debating and i dont usually try to offend people! Right Omen! hehe LOL

Well, first of all, i think that the most NERVOUS snake ive seen in action is the retic since ive seen three rock pythons and they all had great attitude even a rescue one from the spca.

Second, i think that the snake in general becomes "agressive" (like you people tend to say although i dont like the use of the word), when and only when the person that owns them doesnt do a good job at keeping and handling them. People that own rocks,retics,burms,anacondas and even most colubrids (to some people...hehe) should take the time to read up on these snakes and not just their care requirement but also proper handling techniques. If someone owns a retic and never takes it out to handle it...of course its going to snap at you through the cage!!LOL

What i mean is if you buy a baby retic,rock, etc. You take the time and Handle it often..therefor it will bite you less and be less nervous around humans. Thats for the babies..like i went to a show in montreal and there was a retic there was 6-8 feet and it was a sweetheart cause she handled it often and it was less nervous around people.

Now for you people who have large constrictors to start off with (like you buy them and they are not babies), if youre too scared or nervous to handle the snake because its already half way full grown, then you dont have to. You just leave it on display but dont go and take it out to show a friend. Just leave it in its cage and when it comes cleaning time..grab a hook..move the snake to the side..slip a divider in the middle of the cage..clean that side and do the same with the other side, therefor there is only a small chance you get bitten. If you want to handle a retic after that, buy yourself a baby one but leave that one alone..know what i mean?

People dont seem to understand..its just like any other animal..like your pet dog for example. If you tie it up in your backyard and never go see it..then you stick him in the middle of a crowd..what do you think his reaction is going to be? Have a good attitude and play with the people..of course not..he will probably be soo nervous that he would want to get out of there the fastest possible.

Some people also get these big constrictors only for display and they leave them in the cages all the time...then one day to be "cool" they decide to show it off and they get bitten at the first chance the snake gets..is it its fault? Of course not. If the only interaction the snake gets is when you feed it..then he is not used to human interaction at all and is nervous and afraid you will hurt him.

Lost Cause? Thats a lame term. Everyone who owns large constrictors or any other snake..you know as much as i do that if we are having little problems with our snakes, for example, being a little nippy, we dont just give up on them and say they are a "lost cause". Come on people!

Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you. For example, Honduranfreek, (hope you dont mind kelvin), once said in his old posts..snakes dont have feelings and come and tell us when a large retic comes and kisses you in the back of the leg where it ends up in a nice present like 32 stitches.(not sure on the amount of stitches exactly and not sure of the size of the retic so i wont write it).

Wow this took me a long time to write!I find it fun to have debate like these! That way i learn how to express myself more..as you all know..i dont post alot..! It's mostly my boyfriend. Well people that was just my way of thinking..i just think that its kinda childish for someone who never takes his snake out and then asks himself why the snake bit him?..If a snake bit me..id ask myself what i did wrong..i wouldnt say the snake is automatically agressive.

Hope to hear from you guys soon!

Snake Lady
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Old 04-17-03, 08:07 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Ohh yah..j paulsen .. i like having debates with people like you...as far as the other person goes after you.. he most likely..just debates with a more mean attitude.. he should learn to debate like us..and not point at certain people.

Snake Lady

Sorry just had to say it!
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Old 04-17-03, 08:15 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Also, its too my knowledge snakes have a learning mind. they learn as they go. Ive read and seen documentories on Komodos, crocs, alligators ETC learning too put a sound, and food into one hence when the bell goes, its dinner time and the animal searches out food.
So if one owner abuses a reptile, it is going to learn that humans are a threat. and as i said before, some animals have a natural tendency too be "flighty" and aggressive due too their natural disposition. And no.. So you dont misconcieve my thoughts again, obviously nobody goes into the wild and abuses a wild snake hence the snake turns into a man-eater.. wild snakes rarely come into contact with humans, therefore they are "threatend" or "defensive" by their presence. this has absolutly nothing to do with affection.
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Old 04-17-03, 08:18 PM   #34 (permalink)
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OH MY GOD!!! where is the "snakes love me" crap coming from??? nobody said their snake shows affection! affection is a part of emotion, not ALL of emotion! I personally know snakes are not affectionate nor are lizards. I dont think anyone implied this.

by the way, no offence meant on this, we all love our animals its just fun to gab about them. Its incredibly hard to communicate on the net. So sorry if you took my post the wrong way

Last edited by V.hb; 04-17-03 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 04-17-03, 08:35 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you. For example, Honduranfreek, (hope you dont mind kelvin), once said in his old posts..snakes dont have feelings and come and tell us when a large retic comes and kisses you in the back of the leg where it ends up in a nice present like 32 stitches.(not sure on the amount of stitches exactly and not sure of the size of the retic so i wont write it).
Okay I said the whole thing about the feelings..Whoa Hold On! Never in the post did i say that some of you said that here. I was talking about people saying that in previous threads...I remember there was a whole post on Snakes and feelings. and there were a lot of people who said they belived that their snakes had feelings and stuff. Thats when honduranfreek said his story.

The reason i was posting that is because not only us read this post and if the people that were into the other thread..could have read this thread also! It was not directed to you! Dont take things so offensive! Obviously you need to calm down and stop finding little details on everybodys posts to argue.

Please stop bieng so mean so the thread doesnt get closed. Id like to hear more peoples opinions.

Thanks! Snake Lady
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Old 04-17-03, 08:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Old 04-17-03, 08:50 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Feelings does not nessecarily mean affection, thats all i said! if thats being mean iam sorry.
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Old 04-17-03, 09:14 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You all need to keep more and speak less. Just my humble and wise beyond my years opinion...John
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Old 04-17-03, 10:37 PM   #39 (permalink)
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man alot can be said when you are in the shower.

Quote:
PS Snakes do have feelings,
By V.hb.

Quote:
The real question should be, do snakes have feelings? I believe they do
By J.Paulsen

Quote:
OH MY GOD!!! where is the "snakes love me" crap coming from??? nobody said their snake shows affection! affection is a part of emotion, not ALL of emotion! I personally know snakes are not affectionate nor are lizards. I dont think anyone implied this.
By V.hb.

Quote:
Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you. For example, Honduranfreek, (hope you dont mind kelvin), once said in his old posts..snakes dont have feelings and come and tell us when a large retic comes and kisses you in the back of the leg where it ends up in a nice present like 32 stitches.(not sure on the amount of stitches exactly and not sure of the size of the retic so i wont write it).
By Snake Lady

it well stated IF you (in a general sense) think your ball python has FEELINGS and loves you........ Then she had to justify herself after you V.hb said that no one said that snakes had feelings (not in those words but basically if they have feelings they must be able to show affection) and you said they cannot and do not show affection.

so lets get this straight:
FEALINGS=love, hate,sadnes,joy,anger......
LOVE=affection
EFFECTION= tendernes,attachement

I had to dust off the dictionary for this debate so lets make this clear. The minute a person says that a snake has fealings it includes all of the above.

And V.hb next time you want to say you did not or that nobody said something re read the whole thread so you dont get called on it.

BTW snake lady posted something B4 you and you decided to edit your post we all see when a edit is made.

Quote:
by the way, no offence meant on this, we all love our animals its just fun to gab about them. Its incredibly hard to communicate on the net. So sorry if you took my post the wrong way
By V.hb.

You changed it after snake lady defended her self and tryed to make her look like she was bashing you wrongfully but when she read it all she saw was

Quote:
OH MY GOD!!! where is the "snakes love me" crap coming from??? nobody said their snake shows affection! affection is a part of emotion, not ALL of emotion! I personally know snakes are not affectionate nor are lizards. I dont think anyone implied this.
By V.hb.

any way this was fun! I learned how to use the forums better and i cant wait to see what ppl have to say about this.

Chondro Python
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Old 04-17-03, 11:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
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In the immortal words of Jim Carry " ALLLLRIGHTY THEN!"

Rocks bite more or are more threated or defencive or whatever you want to say. But for agressiveness when a Scrub actually chaces you and does not take that oppertunity to flee it's invading my personal comfert zone. I agree with Chondro that most times it is out of defense but some snakes are snappier then others.

If two of the exact same species of snake are raised in the same household by the same keeper why is one more likely to bite?

I am not calling anyone out I honestly want to know how this fits into your debate.- Tim
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Old 04-18-03, 12:16 AM   #41 (permalink)
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LOL!! TROUSER SNAKE!!
it has 2 meanings!!!
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Old 04-18-03, 04:34 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Well lets see if I can give a logical observation.

Quote:
Rocks bite more or are more threated or defencive or whatever you want to say.
Ha ha ha well you did a good job stating that, that way no one starts a new debate.

Quote:
But for agressiveness when a Scrub actually chaces you and does not take that oppertunity to flee it's invading my personal comfert zone.
Well said the first thing I do in a situation like that is ask my self;

why was it chasing me?? What did I do? How badly did I disturb it? and of cours where did this whole thing hapen?

Don't forget a snake room or living room is far from being 100 acers of forest. Where the animal can flee and hide.

So ya come a cross a scrub that dosen't feel in top condition physicly, hungry, strested out from a trip of some sort.

Any of these can lead to a scrub with a difficult disposition. The only thing I can say is if it is safe to do so leave it alone and go and approch it later after it calmes down a bit. If you can not leave it the room to rest.

You AND your PARTENER (who should be with in arms reach at all times) will need to stand your ground and be ready to do your job as herpers.

This is a situation that should be avoided at all cost but a herper that choses to keep large reptile(snakes) should be ready for and if posible train for it every once and a while.

First off they sell equipment to regain control of a situation like this:

---there are snake hooks made for larg pythons (retic's, burm's rock's and scrubs).
---there is also realy long forceps( large tongs).
---and there is a trash can made by Rubermaid that can be locked at the top (a larg snake bag will work to if you are more comfertable with that).
--- A broom handel is a handy thing to have kicking around your snake room.

Now dont jump in a try to be hero your partner must know what you are planing at all times and if they seem to not be gifted with telapetick powers thats ok! A constant link of comunication must be open.

So now your best tool and #1 life line is that snake hook. If there is a snake that needs two ppl to control it there should be 2 hooks in your snake room at ALL times. You can regain control of your animal while keeping a safe distance with these tools.

Once you are ready to start you need to open the trash can and put it on it's side (or lay out your snake bag on the floor) now if you have the proper equipment you can easaly center the snakes head with you and your parteners HOOKS and from there guide the snake into the trash can once you can do that you can close and lock it. Now NEVER EVER put the can standing up you it can kill your snake if you keep it like that too long it will crush it self with it's own wight .

Now just lift the can and place it on it's side in the cage and remove the cover, if needed use the cover as a shield to protect your face let the snake come out on its own and remove the can when it dose caus it has just sufferd a realy high stress level and may need to hide in a closed in area.

(this is if you choose to use the bag)

Place the bag on the floor and take a hook in one hand and a set of tongs in the other now you and your partner need to have thos pieces of equitment.

Guide the snake in the center of you with the hooks and both of you WITH the tongs grab hold of a side of the bag and gently pull it over the snakes head. Take your broom handel or just the back end of the hook and lay it gently in the back of the neck to pin the snakes head in place. Make shour your patner is ready to take control of the body or else you will have a fight on your hands that you can not win on your own. Once that is done keep the bag over the head transport tha snake to it's cage place the whole body in and then guide the baged head into the cage and remove the bag with a pair of thong and there you go your snake is home.
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Old 04-18-03, 05:10 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I did not want to stuff al my ideas ind one post it would have ben to long BTW it was like 4:50am when I started that post it is now 6:05am any way back to more important matters

Quote:
I agree with Chondro that most times it is out of defense but some snakes are snappier then others
It is nice to know ppl agree with my thaughts and opinions.

And yes there are some snakes that are snappier then others just like we have a tolerence level for a bunch of stuff our boss, kids, husband, wife, in-laws...
But some off us have higher tolerence levels like some ppl have (a short fuse) we say our snakes have passive and active deffences well Humans are passive agressif or active agressif

passive deffence= to deffend your self with out any violent aproch
Royal python (balling) milk snake(mimicing) hog nose (playing dead)

active deffence= to deffend your self with the nasasery force
reticulated python (mock striking and realing biteing you) red spiting cobra ( do i need to say what is dose) well any way a active deffence is hard to miss

passive agresif= not to dwell on the present caus you will get you revenge EVENTUALY.

active agressif= telling the person off and start to swing for the touch of death(hehehe)

All creaturse are classified in one of thos catagorys we humas are just so special (*caugh*not *caugh*) that we feal the need to name it somthin else cause of psycological science.

We are all born with some kind of caracteristics that stay with us our whole life. But just caus me and my sister are the same species (family) same parents we are totaly difrent in temperment and the thing we like are not all the same either.

So in other words you may have 10 rocks or retics but they all have diffrent requierments diffrent dispositions all the way down to where 9/10 of you retics will eat jumbo white rats one may only eat avrege black rats it can be that minute of a diffrence or and can be as bad as having the snappiest royal python out of a cluch of 10 from a mother that hase never produced snappie babys.

Like my Dad would say''it's the way I built I can't help it dame it''

any way it was fun to type all this I hope it was worth it.
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Old 04-18-03, 05:13 AM   #44 (permalink)
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That's was a GREAT post!!! I agree, man... good job!!
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Old 04-18-03, 05:24 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Thank you I had to think hard enuf that I need an advil now.LOL
it's not easy explaning somthing that comes naturaly but I did the best I could.
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