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Old 09-04-20, 09:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Small arboreals?

I love the look of ATBs - their slender build, the way they drape and coil themselves instead of just balling up like ETBs seem to (seriously I don't understand the appeal of ETBs, they're literally a green ball on a stick... no offense to those who love them; to each their own!) but for a couple of reasons wondering what is out there, if anything, that might have a similar slender build and arboreal habit but be smaller in size/housing requirements...without requiring frogs or lizards as food. Rodents and inverts I can do, but I don't have a good source for lizards or frogs.

Currently I have a corn snake and three Kenyan Sand Boas. They are all great snakes to handle, though the corn can be a little snippy (feeding response) in his tub. I'm interested in a display snake, but I also recognize that I'm not super experienced as a snake keeper so if there are species that otherwise fit, they may be above my current skill level and/or budget and may need to be a goal snake.

I have come across Indonesian tree boas, which are lizard-eaters, almost always wild-caught (there are circumstances where I would be okay with wild-caught, but I prefer CBB), and accounts vary as to how well they switch to eating rodents and whether doing so might be bad for the snake.

Another group that I've come across that have some slender arboreal species, are cat snakes and/or cat-eyed snakes. But it seems like there's not a lot of specifics on whether there are small species available, and also some of these seem to maybe be more venomous than others?

Thanks for any advice!
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Old 09-05-20, 12:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

As someone who has kept ATBs ETBS and Boiga. I will say ATBs and Boiga are not the best display animals. Unless you have nothing in the enclosure I found that ATBs prefer to have arboreal hides or even hide at a ground level hide they do not perch on a single branch like ETBs or GTPS do they prefer fork shaped branches and an insecure one will not even perch unless provided security. Still very cool snakes that come in many different colors but don't expect them to be anymore active during the day than an ETB. Now as far as Boiga (cat eyed snakes) I have boiga dendrophila melanota. These snakes can be pretty difficult to get cb. They are out there but they sell pretty fast. I'm not too sure about the other species of boiga but boiga dendrophila (mangroves) make horrible display snakes. They are a very very shy species that will hide all day. At night mine comes out but if I walk up to the enclosure he goes right back into hiding. May be different with CBB but i don't have experience with that. Now to defend Emeralds. They are so appealing to people because they rely on their camouflage to stay hidden which means they don't feel as insecure hiding on an open perch making them great display snakes. And lets not forget about their actual colors imo they are natures masterpiece. They are like a lot of snakes though they are active at night. And seem to be decently active unless they just ate a meal.
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Old 09-05-20, 01:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

Thanks for your reply! I guess I'm not necessarily meaning the same thing by "display" that you are.

ETBs and GTPs are pretty snakes, that sit out where you can see them, yes. They're reliable and they have flashy colors, and that's cool if that's what you like. Neither species has ever held any particular appeal for me personally.

When I say "display" I don't mean "doesn't hide," and I'm not necessarily looking for an "active" snake. I'm contrasting with my KSBs. They're docile and handleable, but when they're in their homes, they're under the substrate and there's no way to spot them without digging or picking up the tub and looking underneath. But an arboreal snake, even well hidden, can usually be spotted from the right angle. I like playing "find the critter" as long as I have a fair chance. Also, by "display" I'm meaning a snake that is likely not going to get handled regularly.
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Old 09-05-20, 02:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

I see. Then an atb may be the snake for you. When perched they can def be found and you can def make a great looking enclosure with one. Boiga like to hide in tight spots and dont really perch so offering something like a nice fitting corkround works. Mine just prefers the basic plastic hides. Another semi arboreal snake that is actually fairly active during the day is the green redtail ratsnake. These guys do get fairly big but there are other species with in the genus Gonyosoma that stay smaller and you may wanna look into. Green redtail ratsankes (Gonyosoma oxycephalum) are also fairly timid though i wouldnt put them on the scale of a boiga. You may see these guys moving around the enclosure during the day. They perch from time to time but also spend a good amount of time on the ground. Just something to look into. Indo tree boas are something ive always wanted as well but never made the jump to get one. Dont know much about them. I did see some cb up for sell recently but I passed.
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Old 09-05-20, 09:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

rough or smooth green snakes. Whichever of the 2 is legal where you live.
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Old 09-05-20, 09:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

Have you looked at smooth and rough green snakes? They're small arboreal snakes that are insectivores. I think they'd probably meet your requirements as a semi-active display animal. I don't know if you'd be able to find any that are CBB.
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Old 09-05-20, 09:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

Guess I should have typed faster...
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Old 09-05-20, 10:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

I looked at them (green snakes) back when I got my first snakes and I think I ran into some information where they're almost always wild caught AND they often don't adjust well to captivity. I'll take a look at them again, though the fact that they are so difficult to find CBB is a detraction for me. Smooth green snakes are definitely protected in my state but looks like rough green snakes are legal.
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Old 09-06-20, 04:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chairman View Post
Guess I should have typed faster...
Six minutes faster to be exact

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimstrel View Post
I looked at them (green snakes) back when I got my first snakes and I think I ran into some information where they're almost always wild caught AND they often don't adjust well to captivity. I'll take a look at them again, though the fact that they are so difficult to find CBB is a detraction for me. Smooth green snakes are definitely protected in my state but looks like rough green snakes are legal.
Keep looking. Post a wanted ad on like fauna or something. Sometimes they pop up captive.

Also, garter snakes are quite active during the day.
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Old 09-07-20, 04:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

What about Carpet Pythons ? They are definitely arboreals.
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Old 09-07-20, 05:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

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What about Carpet Pythons ? They are definitely arboreals.
Semi-arboreal. They're not exactly small though.
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Old 09-07-20, 06:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

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What about Carpet Pythons ? They are definitely arboreals.
Carpets don't really display well either. More nocturnal and don't move too much. Best display animals are like ETBs and GTPs and colubrids since they move more.
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Old 09-07-20, 06:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

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What about Carpet Pythons ? They are definitely arboreals.
Size is the main reason I haven't looked much at carpet pythons.

Nocturnal isn't really an issue for me; I'm a night owl.
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Old 09-09-20, 12:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

Elaphe prasina, aka green bush rat snakes, are small arboreals. My pair aren't happy about being handled, flighty and sometimes bite when picked up, but it's not like the bites are actually noticeable. They won't take f/t at all, and even as adults will ignore anything larger than small hopper mice.

I have a CB Boiga nigriceps. She's the polar opposite of the prasina, very calm and shows no objection to being picked up or handled. She's never even struck at me from the time she arrived as a small shoestring a couple years ago. She's grown considerably since then. but still isn't fully grown. Ate f/t anoles until she grew large enough for quail chicks.

My Dominican red mountain boas are semi-arboreal, like carpet pythons, but around the same size range. Males are smaller than females, grow to 5-6', though a good bit more slender, overall not much different in size than a large corn snake. Great for handling, babies tend to musk until they become accustomed to it, but never act flighty or bite.
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Old 09-10-20, 03:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Small arboreals?

I have no idea the requirements or care of this species, but green vine snakes are also supposed to be arboreal snakes, and are absolutely gorgeous in my opinion. Just throwing that out there in case it could be helpful.
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