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Old 04-26-18, 08:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

Don’t worry I feel your pain... lol it can get REALLY frustrating
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Old 04-26-18, 08:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

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Originally Posted by phenyx View Post
I was using hyperbole to make a point about the useless absurdity of telling a newbie "do what works for your snake" in all situations.

For example: A newbie reads all this conflicting information, gets confused by it and decides to feed their 200 gram BP an 8 gram hopper mouse every two weeks for 3 or 4 months. The snake isn't dead, it's roaming around at night, and they've just read this post about how there's no hard and fast rules for feeding so they think, "hey, my snake isn't dead so this must be 'working for my snake'." Because they're a newbie, they don't know what an underweight snake looks like, and they probably don't own a scale, so that poor critter could lose a significant portion of its body weight before the newbie has any clue that there's a problem.

My point is that newbies do not have the experience to recognize what "working for your snake" actually looks like.

I thought the temps in my BRBs viv were "working for my snake" until he regurged last week because I did not have the experience to know they weren't. Then I got blasted from all sides with "you have to fix your temperatures now!" Now, I'm frantically trying to correct the temperature issues and I'm not having any luck at all because all I'm getting now is "do what works for your snake".

I don't know what works for my snake because what I thought was working for my snake was WRONG.

I know what won't work for my snake - a hot spot that I will not heat beyond 80 degrees (via IR temp gun) no matter how high I turn the thermostat. I'm sure he's cold and stressed because he can't get warm. He's recovering from a regurg and I'm sure my fumbling around isn't "working for my snake".

I don't know how high I can turn the thermostat/heat mat before it burns out the heat mat, damages my paint or catches fire. (I've already turned up the thermostat once and it had zero effect on the hot spot temperature.)

So I guess I'll just let him remain stressed out and cold with a sub par hotspot. Or take out all the substrate out of the tank and let him live directly on the glass. Or hang a blow dryer over his cage and blow hot air in. (For those who missed it again, I'm making a point using hyperbole.) Is he fine at the lower temperature? How should I know? Everything I do is just a random shot in the dark at this point because I do not have the experience to know what "working for my snake" looks like.
I understand what you were doing. That's besides the point, because regardless of whether you were saying it to make a point or not, that's how you've been acting about the whole situation. Like I said...we've all been there and figured it out in the same way you have. You have to realize though, what you just said is part of the process. You figured out SOME of what works for your snake. You may still have more to figure out, but you're getting there. And remember, your snake is still alive, so you're doing something right.

Again, I KNOW that newbies don't always know what "works for their snake" but the fact is that if everyone called it quits because of that, then no one would own snakes. No one is born with the natural ability to successfully care for snakes. It's all about taking in all kinds of information, making some sense of it, and applying it. No, you're snake isn't going stress and die if your temps don't stay to the degree 24/7. Just like your snake won't die if you don't feed XX% of it's body weight every 10-14 days. I think once you come to realize that you don't need to be so stringent about everything, you will realize that it's not that difficult, and you are making a fine snake owner. Until then, I think you'll just making it less enjoyable for yourself.
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Old 04-26-18, 08:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

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Originally Posted by phenyx View Post
How can a newbie who's just joined the site, or even one like me who's been here a couple of months, have any idea who has experience and who's regurgitating information? I know that BigSnakeGirl keeps BCCs and seems far more knowledgeable about their feeding and care than anyone else but everyone else is just as much a mystery to me as the first day I joined. Short of asking for responders to post their CVs along with their responses, there's no way to tell if the person telling me to only use 1/4" of substrate over the heat pad is experienced and knowledgeable or if he's just regurgitating information off the internet.



Why does it matter if the tape radiates heat? Whatever heat it radiates would be the same temperature as the pad. In any case, that won't work with the brand new thermostats I just spent $70 on. The probe I have goes directly from stainless steel sensor rod to flexible wire with nothing in between. If I only tape the wire then the wire bends and the probe dangles down and has zero contact with the pad. Do NOT tell me I need to buy new thermostats again. I am very hesitant to peel back the pad and sandwich the probe between the pad and the glass because it would create an air bubble and result in heat loss. I can't get the substrate to heat properly now, much less with a giant air bubble in the middle of the pad.

Currently, my thermostat temp is set to 95 degrees. It's been there for at least 8 hours. Prior to that it was set to 90 degrees for 12 hours. In 24 hours, my hot spot temperature has yet to rise above 80 degrees. It has been at 80 degrees since midnight last night. Do I set the thermostat to 100 degrees?

I bought the ZooMed ReptiTherm UTH sized for a 10-20 gallon tank. My tank is 10 gallons. Is there some experienced keeper club secret that I should have bought an oversized pad? Or do I have to sacrifice a goat to get this damned hot spot to the correct temperature?

At the moment my BRB is trying to recover from a regurg in a tank without an appreciable hotspot because *nothing* I've done is working.



So according to this I could feed my 230 gram BP anything from a 2 gram pinky to a 40 gram small rat every 4 days to 3 weeks. Because that totally makes sense. I'll just stick with starving/powerfeeding/whatever the hell I'm doing that's probably wrong. I know! I'll give her 40 gram small rats every 7 days. It doesn't matter because there are no right answers. Everyone does it differently and everyone is right. I could even give her a rabbit and she'd be just fine. I can just make this **** up as I go along now because I can't make heads or tails of the information overload and it doesn't matter because there's no right answers anyway!
As far as who you should or shouldn't listen to...are there people giving out advice while asking a lot of basic questions...have they had their practices questioned by a lot of other people..?maybe consider a members tenure as well as whether or not they actually have experience breeding, which is usually apparent in posts. People who ramble on tend to not have actual experience...that's all I can say without either elevating or throwing mud at forum members which I don't want to do.

Well, metal tape...since it is metal ...can trap heat and stop it from dissipating so it'll build up...if you're using metal tape to attach a probe right on the sensor then there could be an issue with the accuracy.

As far as the feeding thing goes...You should watch your animals and you feed appropriate size accordingly....but being that you're so new and you seem to need a regimen to live and die by, listen to whoever you think you should... I get that you're frustrated...but acting this way isn't going to make people want to help, so on that note you'll hear no more from me. Surely there is someone here you'll be comfortable enough to listen to, and if not, move on. I second the advice of reading some books.

Last edited by Andy_G; 04-26-18 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 04-26-18, 10:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

Look, this is easy. You need to find a method that works for YOU. Pick some advice. Be it tape the probe to the heat mat then elevate those temps until you get the desired hotspot within the enclosure.

Feeding, same thing, pick a method that works for you.

Problem is you're trying to take on too much at once and yes the membership is trying to help but I can see how we're all pulling you in differing directions.

Once you have one solid way of doing things down then you can start tinkering or listening to differing advice and start branching out.

As a new keeper, you need to get your animal and you settled into a routine.
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Old 04-26-18, 10:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

I mean if you are having so much trouble setting up the heat pad just toss it and go with the che for the temps. Honestly a BRB doesn’t need a hotspot really to digest they do just fine with ambient temps in the 70s. If your ambient is 78 then it doesn’t need anything else. Turn off the heat pad and see what the hot spot is on the substrate directly below the Che to make sure it isn’t too hot in that spot.

I used backheat for my brb when they were younger and it was never above 82-83 for them near the back where the heat tape was located in the rack. And it was 75 or lower near the front away from the heat. After they outgrew that rack I kept them at room temp which was 72-73 most days with no supplemental heat. They are not a species that require you to go crazy trying to keep them warm because hot kills them. Anything above 85-86 is the danger zone for these guys. I keep them in my beauty snake rack at the bottom now, which is still room temp with a slightly warmer side of 75 for the one and the other has a warmer range from 75-85 because it’s a few up from the ground in the rack.

So while you are stressing trying to make it hotter because he is ‘cold’ he is probably the most comfortable he’s been since you got him if the hottest spot in the cage is 80...

If you need a caresheet to help you understand what temp range is best this is the one to follow.
Care Sheet Brazilian Rainbow Boa
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Old 04-26-18, 12:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

All of these questions are daunting to us newbies, and this forum is great to get all of the various, and sometimes conflicting, information. But you need to take it all in, and apply it in the way it works for you and how your BRB is doing. This requires observation, adjustment, observation, adjustment,etc.
If your BRB starts to lose muscle definition, try to feed less; vice-versa. This can only be done over time.

I don't think heating needs to be overly complicated either. I observed, over time, that mine spent more time on the hot side, so I raised the thermostat 1/2 degree at a time until she started spending a more equal amount of time on both sides. If/when that changes, I'll make the adjustment up or down until she's where she needs to be. I honestly don't know if the UTH is exactly the temperature that the sensor is picking up, but I know my snake is enjoying both sides of her viv, has a great appetite, and looks healthy.

Same with humidity, etc.

It reminds me of starting a keto diet. At first you have to measure everything out, record all your macros, weigh all your food, and plan out all your meals for the day, week, etc. But you don't do that forever; over time, it just becomes second nature. You don't need to weigh a piece of chicken to estimate its weight or maco content.

FWIW, that's my 2 cents. I find all the information here, even if/when contradictory, to be quite useful. Plus it's nice and kinda fun to observe the snarky back and forth (unless it gets nasty).
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Old 04-29-18, 04:19 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

OP?????? Are you still around???
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Old 04-29-18, 06:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

Guidelines vs fix-it-for-me.

OP, if you are still here, understand that we all operate within guidelines of "the animal's in question" habitat. There are very few hard rules and fortunately, there is a reasonable amount of variation to achieving correct husbandry.

You have been given the concepts, now you need to figure out the details.
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Old 04-29-18, 06:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

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Guidelines vs fix-it-for-me.

OP, if you are still here, understand that we all operate within guidelines of "the animal's in question" habitat. There are very few hard rules and fortunately, there is a reasonable amount of variation to achieving correct husbandry.

You have been given the concepts, now you need to figure out the details.
^^^^ Well said ^^^^
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Old 04-29-18, 03:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

OP needed to step back and take a break.
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Old 04-29-18, 04:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

Anywhere you go, there is going to be contradictory information. Even outside of reptiles. There is no subject on this earth where 100% of the discourse is agreed upon by everyone. It's your job to determine what you find valuable, and to dig through the mess.

I'm not sure who said the temp should be close...I've never had my thermostats read exactly the same as the actual temp, regardless of where I place them. The important part is that you set your thermostat at a temp that allows it to reach your goal temps. I have thermostats set to 83F that reach 90F ambient temps. I have thermostats set to 95F that reach surface temps of 90-93F. You shouldn't be relying on the thermost to tell you temps, but as long as you have it set up correctly, it will control your temps. Even if the thermostat has to read 100F to get to a desired temp of 90F, all that matters is that it is resulting in the temps you want.

You don't want to measure the surface of the bedding. You want to measure the surface of the ENCLOSURE..below the bedding. If you heat the top of the bedding to 90F, the floor could easily be 100+, and result in burning or killing your snake if/when it burrows down to the pad. If the snake has access to heat, it should always stay at or below the maximum healthy temp.

I think some of your problem is also getting an intermediate species as a beginner. BRBs are not good beginner snakes without taking the time to research and digest as much information as possible beforehand. They are very sensitive to high temperatures and humidity, moreso than a snake such as a ball python, corn, or boa constrictor. They aren't as advanced as a green tree python, but they aren't the easiest to keep, either. I think a lot of more experienced keepers sometimes take BRB keeping for granted (even I do sometimes). If you're used to keeping other species, it's not much tweaking to get BRBs right, but it's a lot to start out with.

I've also noticed they tend to have weaker...dispositions? Than other snakes. I see more health issues in BRBs than any other "popular" snake. They are the only species I've kept that I've ever had die on me, though I'm thinking the ones that died were mostly due to bad genetics than anything (or I'm hoping). Regurges and early deaths are common in this species, from what I have seen. Perfectly healthy and long-lived individuals are also common, and sometimes they can be quite hardy. Just read this story by Dave Colling! I just notice a higher rate of bad experiences with this species vs other species, and that may just be an information bias of some sort, but it has also made me feel I need to be more careful with them.
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Old 04-30-18, 03:52 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

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OP needed to step back and take a break.
Maybe that's best for you and your snake.

Forums like these are such a blessing ...and a curse.
It makes is sooooo easy to find info with it all just a click away. And since we've basically all got a computer, tablet or smartphone, or all 3, it's right at our fingertips almost anytime any place.
...the drawback is obviously anybody can sign up for free and post pretty much whatever they want.
It also takes much of the "work" out of learning. It's too easy to only ask specific questions related to what a person is trying to find out at that time. Instead of taking a week, or however long, to read a book with chapters of valuable info people just want their answer NOW. People seem satisfied reading a caresheet and a few internet forum threads as there way of researching a pet. It's simply not enough.

It's important to always cross reference multiple sources before believing anything to be true or fact. If you read one thing, apply it then read another thing that contradicts the first you'll drive yourself nuts. You'll be able to weed through the bull spitters soon enough, it doesn't take long to learn who they are...

I honestly think you'd benefit greatly from going to your local library or buying a book or two. Sit and read them in peace, without the distractions and drama and contradictions of the forums.

The forums have become such fantastic tools, but they're just ONE tool. And many of us learned before this tool even existed. Get yourself a book and learn all you can about the species of snake you're keeping. The more you know, the better a home you can provide for your pet. You'll also spend less time stressing and more time enjoying your pet, isn't that what it's all about???
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Old 04-30-18, 08:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

Good news is this one is pretty easy

[____________] <--- thats your tub or enclosure
<<< <-----That's your probe
-------- <---- That's your heat tape

You're going to lose a couple of degress through tub. If you're using like 6" of substrate or a wooden viv, the heat won't make it through and you'd probably need a totally different heat source. Fortunately, plastic/glass and paper or a small layer of aspen will transfer heat just fine.

Don't use foil tape directly on the probe you can use packing tape for that, but it's fine to use it to attach the heat tape with. Make sure the probe won't get pulled lose or your heat tape will run full throttle. Heat tape should not be more than 1/3 of the floor space to make sure the animal can get away from it.
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Old 05-01-18, 07:47 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785 View Post
I see more health issues in BRBs than any other "popular" snake. They are the only species I've kept that I've ever had die on me

People keep them too hot. It causes all types of issues with them from regurge to shedding problems stress, death, etc. Extended temps above 86 will cause almost irreversible damage with this species.
Most will apply the "all reptiles are the same" law to them and that's what causes the issues.
If you keep them below the 83/84 degree mark, they'll do just fine.

D
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Old 05-01-18, 08:05 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: I think I'm done.

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Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785 View Post
I've never had my thermostats read exactly the same as the actual temp, regardless of where I place them.

This is also important statement. If you are buying your thermostats from petco, pet supermarket, or even most reptile stores......IT WILL NOT BE ACCURATE.

If you DO want an accurate thermostat, you'll need to spend at least 150/250 bucks (Ranco, Herpstat, Pangea, etc) to get it.

D
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