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Old 09-25-17, 11:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

The last one I encountered was a large wild one we were called on to remove from a house. When we got there we found it hiding behind some boxes in a room with its tail exposed. I opted to tail it because I was afraid it would thrash around too much with the snake pole and as thin bodied as they are I was concerned it might hurt itself. I also figured it would be somewhat mellow due to how cold the room was that it was in.
I tailed it and got it in the snake bucket without much issue. We drove it across the street and I instructed my booter firefighter to walk about 50 feet out into the desert, unscrew the lid and throw it as far as he can. He asked me why and I told him because it would likely come back after him. Well he thought I was joking so he stepped off the truck, took about 10 steps and dropped this demon at his feet. It immediately made a 180 and came back after him. He let out the most feminine scream I have ever heard come from a man as he tried to get back in the truck before it found it's revenge. Lucky for him he got the door closed in time but the determined little devil climbed up into the undercarriage of the engine trying to get to him.
This experience was not out of the ordinary for this species.
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Old 09-25-17, 01:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Now I seriously require one of these criminals.
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Old 09-25-17, 02:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Haha wow! Even my cobra is not as scary as some of these stories. They sound like interesting animals to work with. I'm really liking some of the hypo bulls though.
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Old 10-03-17, 09:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

*update* So I ended up getting a bullsnake. I paid $150 plus another $50 shipping because I was told it was a Stillwater hypo bullsnake. I was and am fine with that. Funny thing is I just saw that the gentleman I purchased it from updated an add that had a picture of my exact snake listed as a northern pine snake for $100 and noting that it was now sold. I'm not really sure what to think about this. The guy was pretty friendly and has a good reputation online. He mentioned that the parents were "red influenced". So is that where the northern pine is coming in because I know they are the same species but I've never heard anyone say "Stillwater northern pine". It also doesn't explain why he requested $50 more than he was asking in his add on the other fb page. Dude basically messaged me and told me he had some nice males after I posted about the Stillwaters on one fB page. I even double checked and asked him if it was a Stillwater and he said yes. Now after seeing his add that for sure has a picture of THE snake I purchased from him being sold as a northern pine for $100...I'm feeling some kinda way suddenly. If I breed this thing with another Bull and tell someone that the offspring have Stillwater hypo in them...am I unknowingly lying? In all fairness the snake is very nice looking and I like it. I'm not even mad about the price...I'm just wondering if I have what I thought I was buying. I'm leaving his name out of it under the assumption that this is my own ignorance causing the confusion since I've never owned a bullsnake before. Anyone that knows anything about bullsnakes have any thoughts on this?
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Old 10-03-17, 09:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Do you have a picture of the snake? The Stillwater hypos and Northern Pines look very different.
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Old 10-03-17, 09:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Here is a pic from my instagram

http://www.instagram.com/p/BZy7hvcA8...has_blackthorn
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Old 10-03-17, 11:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Not a northern pine and the 2 are not the same species, even subspecies, or usually hybridized but what all gets crossed is only the breederīs word and the word of who they bought from. There is a red northern pine the original breeder dispersed and a few are trying to bring back but they are still very much black and white pines overall with some red tinting the white areas.

I'm not familiar with the lighter bulls but stillwater is a locale. What I've heard is the area has or at least had rattlesnake elimination events. In saving bull snakes from poor ID some unique orange had been collected alive. The result is sometimes used in other red projects but most have their own designations for those offspring.
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Old 10-04-17, 04:31 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Ok so not a northern pine. Well that's a good sign. As far s my word on what I received, I have the paperwork from the breeder. Not that anyone is calling me a liar but if I was that kind of guy I would have just had a knee jerk reaction and put the gentleman's name out there. I had not planned on doing that even if it turned out to be a northern pine. As I said in an earlier post, it could just be my own ignorance and lack of experience creating the confusion. I should have educated myself better purchasing it so the fault inevitably lies with me in the end. I appreciate the help though. Thanks for weighing in on it. I do feel better knowing it is most likely what I wanted and that was the most important issue for me.
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Old 10-04-17, 04:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

So my wife just looked at the add I was talking about and the error is on my part for sure. While the add itself is somewhat confusing and the price difference is still there, my wife pointed out that he does mention Stillwater hypo in there. She also mentioned that he may have just cushioned the price when he made the original offer to me with the expectation that I would haggle/negotiate it down which is something I wouldn't do unless the price was way over the top. So essentially I am wrong here and need to own it. I apologize for wasting everyone's time with this.
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Old 10-04-17, 07:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

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Originally Posted by akane View Post
Not a northern pine and the 2 are not the same species, even subspecies, or usually hybridized but what all gets crossed is only the breederīs word and the word of who they bought from. There is a red northern pine the original breeder dispersed and a few are trying to bring back but they are still very much black and white pines overall with some red tinting the white areas.

I'm not familiar with the lighter bulls but stillwater is a locale. What I've heard is the area has or at least had rattlesnake elimination events. In saving bull snakes from poor ID some unique orange had been collected alive. The result is sometimes used in other red projects but most have their own designations for those offspring.
It is actually a line of recessive hypomelanism that is incompatible with other lines of hypo, and it's named that way because the original animal was collected at a stillwater rattlesnake round up, so not technically a locality at all because it's common for people to round up outside of the immediate areas for these events. The name is connected to the strain and not locality specific and therefore carries over to all animals that are heterozygous or homozygous for the trait. The other strain that is commonly available is trumbower. It's similar to how sharp and kahl are in regards to albino boas. The only instance where this would differ is if someone specified a bullsnake to be a stillwater locality animal.

That is a stillwater hypo bullsnake for sure. Nice grab. I have a feeling it's one from John Skager. If so, have peace of mind that is exactly what it is.

Last edited by Andy_G; 10-05-17 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 10-04-17, 07:53 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Very nice bull snake. I really like the head stamp. Neither of my bulls have one.
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Old 10-04-17, 09:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Andy thank you for your input. I very much regret making that post since it was my own ignorance that caused the issue. I will not confirm or name who produced the snake in this thread because I do not want their name to be questioned or even lightly drug through the mud because of my ignorance. I can imagine it takes time to build a good reputation in this hobby and I'd rather not see that get tarnished just because I'm an idiot. Someone could read halfway through and assume I got a bad deal and that's unfair to the breeder. Thank you for clearing up my understanding of the Stillwater hypo line.
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Old 10-04-17, 09:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

El Ziggy, Yeah he has a distinct marking on his head that if you look at with his nose pointed down kind of makes a clown face. You can sort of see hair eyes nose and the big clown mouth is the marking between the eyes. My son wants me to name him Pennywise but that movie always freaked me out.
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Old 10-05-17, 12:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monocled Guy View Post
El Ziggy, Yeah he has a distinct marking on his head that if you look at with his nose pointed down kind of makes a clown face. You can sort of see hair eyes nose and the big clown mouth is the marking between the eyes. My son wants me to name him Pennywise but that movie always freaked me out.
A snake with a pattern that looks like a clown, a real nightmare for many I'm sure haha
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Old 10-05-17, 03:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Coachwhip or Bullsnake?

Can call it IT then... at least the name is settled
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