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Old 09-28-17, 12:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Ball python pairing ideas!

Ah, Aarron...this is a forum, so you'll have various views on things that may be thrown out there for discussion in order to gain understanding as to the why (why collect, breed, etc.), how (husbandry), and so on; so, I threw the comment in from left field (sorry for the baseball analogy for those that don't know baseball) after reading the recent, sudden surge in breeding threads and trying to understand why, especially regarding BPs, you'd want to breed them. Is it financial, just for S&G's, because I can, I want a certain morph that I'm going to strike it rich with its sale?

No disdain. I love all my animals, all 32 of them. I have my 29 snakes, and three dogs, 90% of the snakes second-hand from people that can't or won't take care of them any more, so my interest is definitely there. And I can see breeding unique species, like Hoggs (extinct in the wild), or other threatened species unavailable anywhere else, but the breeding of BPs seems over commercialized.

Unless, unless, you get that one specific morph that sells for $10k. Then I guess it doesn't matter...unless you can't find a buyer, and how many here will pay $10k for a BP? I even have a hard time thinking about shelling out $8k for a Bob Clark Pied Retic, let alone a BP!

Just looking for a discussion to understand the mentality behind the need to breed...



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Originally Posted by Aaron_S View Post
If you have so much disdain for the industry why do you keep any animals and so many? Why do you put ANY money into the hobby? Why participate if you hate everything that makes it go round?
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Old 09-28-17, 01:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Ball python pairing ideas!

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Originally Posted by Scubadiver59 View Post
Ah, Aarron...this is a forum, so you'll have various views on things that may be thrown out there for discussion in order to gain understanding as to the why (why collect, breed, etc.), how (husbandry), and so on; so, I threw the comment in from left field (sorry for the baseball analogy for those that don't know baseball) after reading the recent, sudden surge in breeding threads and trying to understand why, especially regarding BPs, you'd want to breed them. Is it financial, just for S&G's, because I can, I want a certain morph that I'm going to strike it rich with its sale?

No disdain. I love all my animals, all 32 of them. I have my 29 snakes, and three dogs, 90% of the snakes second-hand from people that can't or won't take care of them any more, so my interest is definitely there. And I can see breeding unique species, like Hoggs (extinct in the wild), or other threatened species unavailable anywhere else, but the breeding of BPs seems over commercialized.

Unless, unless, you get that one specific morph that sells for $10k. Then I guess it doesn't matter...unless you can't find a buyer, and how many here will pay $10k for a BP? I even have a hard time thinking about shelling out $8k for a Bob Clark Pied Retic, let alone a BP!

Just looking for a discussion to understand the mentality behind the need to breed...

Let me break up your post into chunks so I better understand and so things are more clear.

1. I asked a few questions and didn't really see any answers to them.

2. You say you're looking for discussion to understand things but you make sweeping, even a racist comment, generalized assumptions without knowing anything. If you want discussion then you ask questions. If you want to understand you ask "why" and not put down someone elses passion off the hop and refer to them as a puppy mill. By your own statement that you don't understand why someone does it how can you call them a puppy mill with such assertion? It's ignorant.

3. I have no problem with differing view points but that's why I asked questions so I didn't make any assumptions.

4. Breeders do what they do for all of the reason you suggested. Some do it more for one reason than the other but I don't know them so I can't speak to it.

5. While you call me and my friends and others a puppy mill I clearly have issue with that. Everything I know about puppy mills is that they put the financial gain above the health or well-being of the animals, short term and long term. Many stories I've seen/read have had the animals all needing vet care and lots of it. Disease and emaciation run rampant. In reality, my snakes are fed well, their diet is sourced from a place I've looked into to ensure proper diet is fed to the rodents. I continually check for illness and would treat if something happened. My animals are not bred if they don't look to be of proper size and I know my closest friends do the same.
Further, we all continually learn and educate ourselves on what's new and how can we improve things.

6. Why is ball pythons so "commercialized" because they sell. All the unique stuff everyone wants, time and time again get bred and nobody wants it. We're not talking slightly more unique we're talking really rare, stuff like Jamaican boas. People want to see a zoo they don't want to care for one. Same goes for corns, beardies, leos...etc.

7. I see where your passion lies. You prefer to "help" people out by taking on rescues and giving a good home to animals. I applaud you for those 29 animals/people. Want to know how many people I've helped? Dozens into the hundreds at this point. I have helped spurn passion and keeping in all those individuals. Some personally and I stay in touch with, some not so much. Breeding brings in more hobbiest which in turn gives us more people to enjoy and share the hobby with. In hopes that with more people involved laws change for the betterment of our hobby as it becomes more mainstream.

8. The Asia market is massive and relatively new. People are paying $10,000 for snakes of all species if it commands it. These are sold to pet stores there OR to other customers. I'm assuming for pets and or their own breeding purposes. Not for eating as you rudely suggested.

9. People here can and do purchase expensive snakes. Ball pythons generally are in the $2500 and less range now and most people can come up with that depending on what "level" of the hobby they'd like to be in. That is up to them to decide.

Pet stores aren't the scary thing we think they are. They bring in tons of new customers to the hobby which is important to keep it alive and thriving. As well as helping us garner votes to stave off laws that inhibit our passions. Wholesalers get their animals from breeders like myself and others. They are quality animals so there's no issue with health or parasites or feeding. In turn they sell to pet stores to bring in more and more people. Sure there's a bad store here and there but there's often good ones that go unnoticed. Sure there's bad keepers but the great and good ones outweigh the bad ones. How do I know this? Because tens of thousands of animals are produced and sold annually just through pet stores and you certainly aren't rescuing them all. I've built up a community, hundreds of people got their very first pet snake because of me. My friends have brought in hundreds and thousands too. There's a high demand and I like to think that they can't all be ending up on craigslist.

There's so many pets out there that we don't see online. I know a pet store and have spoken to a few of their customers and they only trust the store and buy their animals from them and product exclusively there.

I think I'm most upset you outright **** on someone elses chosen hobby/passion by making false assumptions and claims.
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Old 09-28-17, 07:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Ball python pairing ideas!

Nothing like dropping a deuce on breeders in general while shooting off racial comments in order to "start a discussion". Yikes. Perhaps let's get this back on track without all of that?
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