border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Community Forums > General Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-17, 08:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2014
Posts: 421
Country:
Snake Metabolism

Perhaps this belongs under "Food for Thought" but here it is.
Lately, I have been looking into metabolism since talking to the vet about Derek Roddy's feeding suggestion for my Woma Python.

Derek Roddy suggested the more frequent feedings based on wild observations. Vet is adamant about the biochemistry involved. (I'm sick of looking at it)

I know the Brookfield Zoo nearby me has a Woma Python of their own and I have an appointment with them. Perhaps they can be a third data point.

Would there be a definite way to determine proper intake other than "feed and see"?
REM955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 03-14-17, 03:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
GyGbeetle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2016
Location: AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 557
Country:
Send a message via Yahoo to GyGbeetle
Re: Snake Metabolism

I too have a woma, and since I've bumped up her feeding schedule to every 3-4 days, I haven't really seen any difference. she hasn't gained weight, hasn't lengthened, doesn't seem to impact her health. I do trust Derek Roddy's judgement on this, but having that second opinion won't hurt.

Will you please ask them if they have an albino burmese there named Avalanche? Or if they did and what happened to him?
__________________
2.4 BCIs, 1.1 BCAs, 1.1 tiger retics, 0.1 Burm, 0.1 Woma, 0.1 Columbian rainbow boa

But if anyone asks, I only have 1. The rest just showed up for the house party.
GyGbeetle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-17, 04:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Nightflight99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: TX
Age: 39
Posts: 388
Country:
Re: Snake Metabolism

Perhaps you can give us a bit more background: Is your specimen showing displaying any kind of symptoms that would lead you to question your current feeding schedule? What is your current feeding schedule and what kind of modifications are you considering?
__________________
Research is the process of going up alleys to see if they are blind. - Marston Bates

55.59.7 squamates, 1.1 Canis lupus, and 0.1 Homo sapiens.
Nightflight99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-17, 04:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2014
Posts: 421
Country:
Re: Snake Metabolism

I was reaching out for more a method to determining it without risk to the animal on a generic basis, not specific to my animal in particular.

As for the above mentioned situation with my Woma:
Current: 1 a week with food close to her body width.
Suggestion: Every 3-4 days smaller food. Like what GyGbeetle mentioned.
REM955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-17, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
GyGbeetle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2016
Location: AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 557
Country:
Send a message via Yahoo to GyGbeetle
Re: Snake Metabolism

Quote:
Originally Posted by REM955 View Post
I was reaching out for more a method to determining it without risk to the animal on a generic basis, not specific to my animal in particular.

As for the above mentioned situation with my Woma:
Current: 1 a week with food close to her body width.
Suggestion: Every 3-4 days smaller food. Like what GyGbeetle mentioned.
Charlotte (aka Char Char Binks), my Woma, get's a small rat every 3-4 days. I was feeding her a small rat once a week, until I read about their high metabolisms, and it made sense given how she was constantly "searching" for something, even 1-2 days after eating. She can easily take a medium rat now, but I've kept her at small rats, and she gets a little "bloated" after eating, then she poops, then she's slender again. What I believe was recommended, not just by Derek Roddy but by other breeders, is to keep a feed size close to her girth, or a little less, and feed them more frequently, so avoid obesity.

Even after increasing her feeding schedule, though, she still is VERY active. But she REALLY likes being fed more too.

If you do talk to the zoo, my husband donated his albino burmese python some years ago, as they were looking for an adult breeding potential albino male. I've tried looking at their website, especially their ambassador snakes and educational section, and haven't yet found Avalanche on there. So if you do talk to them, will you please ask, if you remember?
__________________
2.4 BCIs, 1.1 BCAs, 1.1 tiger retics, 0.1 Burm, 0.1 Woma, 0.1 Columbian rainbow boa

But if anyone asks, I only have 1. The rest just showed up for the house party.
GyGbeetle is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 03-16-17, 06:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2014
Posts: 421
Country:
Re: Snake Metabolism

I suppose I can ask about Avalanche. Added to the list.

I do not want to focus so much on the Woma Python in this post. I was hoping that there was some method or technique to figure out appropriate food intake.
REM955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-17, 03:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2013
Posts: 332
Country:
Re: Snake Metabolism

For each species of snake, each individual, at various ages, and throughout the seasons I do not see a single solid formula, scheduling determination, or any other way that could cover that in one summed up solution. You research an individual species for a reason. One of those reasons is how fast they grow, their metabolism and it's changes, and seasonal variation so you know how much and often to feed them. My rosy boas could eat monthly and maintain good condition with no extra searching for food except a few growth spurts or if underfed for a time. They just don't want to overeat. My bull snake goes looking for food every 3-4 days. If the lump is gone he wants more. I have to resist him. However, he still doesn't get fat. The entire group of species puts extra food into growth quite efficiently even though it's believed long term health risks are still a concern for power (excessive) feeding leading to really fast growth early on. My sumatran python and all the blood subspecies have a sloooow metabolism and will get fat easy. Especially as they get bigger, grow slower, and get put on bigger rats that have accumulated more fat so they are the opposite of bull snakes. My desert king goes looking for food about every 14-16 days and it's a waste to leave food in there before he's out hunting. My young corn snake that is just reaching the size I think I will move him up from his 10gallon tank will eat every 7-10days regularly.

Then there's seasonal changes. All my north american species went down in feed over winter. My 3year old rosy pretty much went off food completely and ate once every 5 weeks until recently when she started taking just hoppers more regularly again. My bullsnake ate once a week consistently but unenthusiastically Dec to start of Feb. Mid Feb he said feed me or die. He meant it too. If he didn't get fed more frequently or larger meals, which he'd refused that size earlier in the winter, he actually would start striking at me through the mesh and getting very aggressive. Normally he just gives a bit of bluff with no strikes and then tries to cram somewhere I can't drag him out of but warming up from winter it was throw in food and stay out of his territory or you risk your hand. He's calming back down again but still wants food constantly.

Then we get into some little species specifics like rosy boas are prone to regurgitation and tend to dislike large prey anyway. They often are fed 2 smaller mice for a meal than would normally be fed for a snake their width and their water intake may need controlled around meals as well. Some have more problems than others. I don't know about my youngest yet although she took a gerbil pinky which is considerably bigger than a mouse pinky after a day of debate but my oldest rosy has crammed down some really big stuff when hungry enough so I got lucky with easy ones so far. Fed well now generally she won't even take half that size even after a couple months of refusing meals.

If you have all the same or similar species of similar age you can feed them all much the same and just note the occasional refusal. If you've got a myriad of species of various ages beats me how you make them all eat a set amount on a schedule. I haven't figured that out yet. I've been observing the individuals and weighing them. 1.5-2% of body weight is about what was suggested for my sumatran python. I don't know how much to tweak that for the others but mainly I feed the rosy as often as they'll eat, the bull snake less often then he wants, the desert king when he goes looking, and the corn snake whatever day I pick up food for the others 7-10 days from the last time I fed it.
akane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-17, 11:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
GyGbeetle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2016
Location: AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 557
Country:
Send a message via Yahoo to GyGbeetle
Re: Snake Metabolism

What akane said. It's hard to determine 1 set hard-and-fast rule, even when looking at all boas, or all pythons, because they are ALL so variant. Womas have a really high metabolism. My retics, although they also have a high metabolism, and are also pythons, won't eat on the same schedule, or even on the same schedule with each other (even though they were hatched a month apart. One's a female, the other's a male, and they won't always eat at the same time). My boas are a whole different story too. Some are large, but will eat less frequently than what is "recommended". You really have to gauge the temperament and needs of your animals, and look at the general recommendations for that species/subspecies, and then come up with something that *fits*.

I have a data card for each of my babies, so that I can trend any patterns, and try and make it easier (for me). But they are snakes, and they never got the "easy" memo, and I just have to roll with the punches.
__________________
2.4 BCIs, 1.1 BCAs, 1.1 tiger retics, 0.1 Burm, 0.1 Woma, 0.1 Columbian rainbow boa

But if anyone asks, I only have 1. The rest just showed up for the house party.
GyGbeetle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-17, 03:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec-2002
Location: London
Posts: 2,756
Country:
Send a message via MSN to Andy_G
Re: Snake Metabolism

No as there would be variances between bloodlines, localities...even individuals from the same bloodline or locality would differ. The best thing to do...and I don't see this changing...is use common sense and observe your animals, and feed accordingly.
Andy_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-17, 06:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2014
Posts: 421
Country:
Re: Snake Metabolism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
No as there would be variances between bloodlines, localities...even individuals from the same bloodline or locality would differ. The best thing to do...and I don't see this changing...is use common sense and observe your animals, and feed accordingly.
Pretty much what I expected, but within the same bloodline too? I'd at least hope for some consistency. Jeez.
REM955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 03-17-17, 08:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec-2002
Location: London
Posts: 2,756
Country:
Send a message via MSN to Andy_G
Re: Snake Metabolism

Quote:
Originally Posted by REM955 View Post
Pretty much what I expected, but within the same bloodline too? I'd at least hope for some consistency. Jeez.
There would be certain trend followed but I doubt they'd be identical down to a science.Exact temps, heat delivery method and even stress levels could further influence things.
Andy_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0