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Old 02-16-03, 10:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Have beliefs?

ok. First of all, I already know that this post is not going to win me points. But it has been on my mond for some time.

I may not have been here as long as many, but i have made an observation. There seem to only be select few that express strong beliefs in different aspects of herpetoculture. The herp community is not an exclusive club. We are allowed to hold certain beliefs sacred. And you are allowed to argue the subject (as long as it is civil). Not everyone has to agree on beliefs. It would be great if we did, but that is human nature. How are newbies in the herp world supposed to learn the intracacies of our world without being exposed to the controversy? There are many to choose from, morphs, sale of giant snakes and iguanas, field collecting, to name a few. If yo dont belive in taking snakes fromt he wild, post it, debate it, learn something, anything, just have an opinion. We need to be one minded in our hobby regarding our right to keep herps as ther are many instituions trying to take that right away such as the HSUS, API and PETA. But we can also have our differences. That is what makes a great community. If a 12 year old posts that he just got a baby Retic as his first snake and you dont agree with it, say it. If you do, say it. If you don't think someone should have kept that ratsnake crossing the road, say it. If you don't have an opinion, fine. let others debate it, read it, learn from it. Get an opinion, or dont. Even if yo don't, you still have an opinion of "I don't see the harm". If you think I am ranting and raving, say it. If you think I have said something relevant, say it. The bottom line is don't stradle the fence so you don't offend someone. there may be many fences, but we are all sharing the same yard. If people dislike you because of yor opinion, fine. That is the way of the world, at least you have one. This is the internet people. Noone really has much of a face. Some might meet. Most will not. The internet is aplace where people can come together and express similar interests and different beliefs. Just like the real world. i see too many posts of people gettign animals that (in my opinion and expereice) they should not have. And all I see is "nice snake" and the like. No stances. If a mom wins her son an iguana at a county fair, don't just say "nice throw on the ring toss", make a statement. "an iguana is not a 'prize' ". Or say whatever you think. Whether many like to admit it or not, there are ALOT of herps that only the most experienced keeprs should have. Iguanas are the best selling lizard for one reason, they are cheap. Out of the hundreds of thousands of iggys sold every year, how many make it breeding age? Not many. I saw an iguana sold to a kid yesterdayin pet store. Did I jump ont he counter and preach? no. I gave a few tidbits of wisdom and wrote down the addresses of a couple good sites for them. why? Why didn't I take a stand? Because they are the only shop close to get live feeders on the off chance I need them. Does that make me a hipocrit? maybe. Debate it!

The bottom line is this: You are ALLOWED to have an opinion, even if it differs from what seems like everyone elses opinion. Don't compramise. Take a stand! Speak your mind. The admins here understand that by reading some of their posts. Talk about it, debate it, fight it! They only delete posts that are slanderous or out of line. OPINIONS AND BELIEFS ARE ALLOWED!

ok, done venting
I planted some bird seed. A bird came up. Now I don't know what to feed it.

Last edited by BWSmith; 02-16-03 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 02-16-03, 10:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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well said bud!! and im not just agreeing for the sake of agreeing! lol!
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Old 02-16-03, 10:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Good Post, makes sense... I would say this post "Won you points"...
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Old 02-17-03, 09:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I agree, but in my experience, giving your opinion, even when containing facts, if they're facts someone else doesn't want to hear, causes friction. I personally don't think that's a bad thing. But unfortunately, there are many, many wishy washy people that are scared to death in this day and age to say something, or let others say it if they're in a position of power and can prevent it (good ole censorship).

I can make a simple statement about another herp site (ANY herp site) and I guarantee a moderator or admin will reprimand me - even if I were to say all the people at site xyz wear green underwear. Even if all the people at this site DO wear green underwear, I won't be permitted to say it. Why is that?

I encourage everyone to speak their mind, say what you think. I would say the same thing in person as I do on the internet.

But, it's gotten me restricted from visiting some places, turned many people against me b/c I disagreed with those people that other "sheep" followed blindly. On the other hand, it's made some people re-examine their view on a certain subject.

BE ABLE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF, use the brain that god gave you to come to your own opinion on a subject. You might learn something you didn't know b/c someone might point out a flaw in your reasoning. Someone might learn from you.
Rome did not build a great empire by having meetings, they did it by killing all who opposed them.

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Old 02-17-03, 10:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Very good post and subject! We've gotten to a point where everything is so politically correct nowadays that we are afraid to offend anyone and actually speak our minds. I am in full agreement that we should be able to state our "true" opinions on different subjects and threads instead of always just saying something nice.

The most important thing though, is HOW to properly voice an opinion, an art that unfortunately eludes many... This is where problems arises in such discussions. All it takes is someone to voice a message that is a judgement or attack instead of an opinion to sour it all up.

I've always thought for myself, for as long as I can think back but along the years I did learn that there are times that it's better just to shut up and save yourself the headache.

I do hope to see more discussions and debates with more varied opinions. I just hope that it can all be done in a civil and respectful fashion. Every one has a right to voice their opinion but we must all accept that anyone else has the right to have a different opinion than our own.

Keeper of 5 snakes, leopard geckos, 1 green iguana, 20+ tarantulas, 2 dogs & a bunch of rats!
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Old 02-17-03, 10:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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i like this thread. i think i made mention of something like this in an earlier thread once. i agree. voicing opinions is very important. anyone who says they don't have an opinion I believe is lying. no matter how many times one will say they don't care either way there is always that little thing in the back of your brain pushing you to a certain side. once again i agree, argue your point, debate, if you come up short you kow you need more ammo, so to speak. i raise my glass.

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Old 02-17-03, 10:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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i agree,....speak ur mind..not someone elses!

i got band from another site for my views.

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Old 02-17-03, 10:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well said, BW. The most important thing is to teach the new ones to the hobby the best and worst things they can do for these animals. When all is said and done, the animals shouldn't have to suffer because someone was too proud to ask for help, or too afraid of getting jumped on to ask a question.
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Old 02-17-03, 11:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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This thread to me is great. I'm one of the "newbies" in site and I'm pretty sure I could use alot of fellow chatters opinions on snake husbandry. I've asked tons of questions and mentioned my opinion that I thought would be right and some were and obviously some were not. I've heard many others opinions while some agree others clash thats life isn't it? I'll put it this way I'd prefer to be corrected and have to fix my mistakes so my snakes are taken care of properly rather than you having your opinion and not willing to share it because it's different than some one elses.
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Old 02-17-03, 11:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Very well said Brian! That is the only way we can learn from each other!
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Old 02-17-03, 04:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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this was to be the best therd I have read today it makes me want to start a debat now.

Lets hear some oppinions on captive crocodilians and when some one should consider buying one.
0.1 Jungle Carpet Pythons,
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Old 02-17-03, 04:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ill speak on behalf of the administration.. HA HA!! ok no seriously.. your completely right!! Everyones views and opinions are differant and we LOVE a good debate!! Posts will never be removed because we dont agree with them, posts will only be removed if they get out of line or are not appropriate!! Great post BW. But there are always those people who agree to dissagree and they usually ruin what starts out as a good debate! is offline  
Old 02-18-03, 01:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Alright, so alot of people agree that we should have debates but where are the debates??? Lol.

On the croc subject, I don't feel like I have enough info about them to debate the subject but I do feel that only experienced keepers should keep large/dangerous/venomous herps of ANY kind. I think alot of people share that opinion (correct me if I'm wrong!) so it's not really much of a debatable opinion! Sorry! Lol.
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Old 02-18-03, 01:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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alot of people agree that we should have debates
I love the irony
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Old 02-18-03, 03:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My only problem when people discuss herp beliefs is that there is a line.

Some things ARE debatable. Of course. Most things are. But there are some things that ARE NOT. They are solid fact based on years of trial and error. And I really hate it when (never happens here actually though, on other furms) someone tries to end a debate on one of these fact solid issues by saying "Everyone has their own opinion, to each his own!" thats BS!!! Proper diet is not a "to each his own" (when it comes down to someone say wanting to feed wild caught food or something) neither is proper heat, there are some things that are a matter of opinion and some things that are NOT in MHO!

I mean, you can't change an animals needs beucase you believe or feel one way or another. Needs are needs, and they aren't yours. The animals have to come first. I could go buy a lion tomorrow and tell everyone that in my Opinion they do well eating a 100% mouse diet. But the fact of the matter is that thats NOT true! They need larger meats. But on a forum a person could argue all day saying "well he is still alive and healthy" but the bottom line is he needs larger food with more bone and what not. Thats fact. Not debatable. But sure enough people willl argue and usually end up leaving it at "well to each his own" which i feel is a travesty to the animal. Because there are some things that can't be changed just because *we* want to be individuals.

Sorry bad example but all I could think of to get my point across.

That is what really bugs me. But of course, most things ARE highly debatable, and I was just mentioning the ones that bug me. The times people try and do things their own way when obviously its not the healthy correct way. sh*t i hope people can understand what i just wrote LOL.

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