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Old 02-18-03, 04:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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when it comes down to someone say wanting to feed wild caught food or something
Good example, kindof. That reminds me that I have to check my trap tonight to see if i caught food for Jellybean

All but one snake eats feeder rodents (most frozen). Should you feed snakes WC prey, no. Will you HAVE to at some point, possibly. An adult WC EDB will generally not take to feeder rodents readily if it decides to even eat. Tog et hem feeding in captivity, opten WC prey is all that will be taken. Then they can be moved over to more conventional feeding. I keep squirells and chipmunks in the feeder freezer so i have them on hand in such a case. Case in point, another EDB. 4' female. I had to get her on chipmunks, then offer a chipmunk immediately followed by a rat, then scent the rat with chipmunk, now she just takes rats. Took quite a few chipmunks, but now she pounds every rat I throw in. Pretty good for that species.

Your point is still well taken, just thought I would throw in a little pepper to the soup
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Old 02-18-03, 04:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah well it had nothing to do with actual feeding of WC food. LOL I don't care if people do or don't.

I meant that when people take things that are definite no no's and turn them into a matter of opinion and defend them as such. And then pepople just agree and say "well to each his own" and I believe this is really hurtful to the animal. Because frankly, not everything IS debatable. You can't just "do your own thing" with somethings life everytime. It really bothers me that people sometimes do potentially harmful or dangerous things in the name of "opinion" when clearly, the facts point in the other direction.

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Old 02-18-03, 04:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Another statement I wanted to make, although it has nothing to do with my other one...I totally agree with you BWsmith about the not being afriad to speak your mind

As we all know on SOME forums recently this is certainly (sadly) not allowed for fear of being banished away. I am glad this forum still allows a person to say "Hey Jeff why did you put that button there!" (or something of the like) LOL


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Old 02-18-03, 04:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ya that reminds me yhen I was a bigginer and I hade a cooks tree boa or a atbbut either way it was wild caught and it would not eat for monts and I did not belive in force feading then one night buy ack of god...a bat flew in a window and my friend grabed it it was stil alive and I fed it to my snake and voila...it never skiped a meal after that jus a littel story
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Old 02-18-03, 06:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I personally think that the best way to learn is debating... I agree with many points out there but disagree with WAY too many ppls posts. Personally I think theres too many ppl that give others oppinion that don't know what they are doing.. I have learned to use .. u must select the right information out there. Often in order to know the answer to a question through a thread, one must know the answer first lol

The problem with debates is ppl take it to heart and it becomes personal, childish and immature attacks on others..I love a good debate.. If only they stayed good...

As for the crocodilians in captivity.. I think that 90% of all ppl who own them should not.. Unless u are trully qualified and know what u are getting into, u chould not own one.. I have had lots of experience with many crocodilians of various size and species .. and I am not 100% sure i am in the 10% of ppl that should keep one yet..

Then again.. Why ask the question .. should I keep a croc.. how about a retic or rock or Burm or hot ..

Just my ranting..

(Also keep in mind it is our job to keep the peace, meaning a moderator has to always try to be unbiased to others oppinions)..
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Old 02-18-03, 07:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I must (HAVE) to agree with Pixie, while expressing your opinion, no matter how strongly felt, if you don't do it in a way that is non-attacking nastyness becomes an issue. Online is notorious for misinterpertation in a negative direction. It takes skill to write in a manner that expresses your opinion without seeming to belittle the opinions of others. As a community of herpers we must remember that at this site we are all equals regardless of experience, age, and knowledge. I left that other site when I saw newcomers jeered at, ignored, or attacked for expressing an opinion contrary to the established clique's.
 
Old 02-18-03, 08:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Since there was a good portion of this thread dedicated to the car driver / owning a large boid debate.. I split them in too to keep each subject seperated..


The other is here

Have beliefs?

Ciao
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Old 02-18-03, 08:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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One debate that comes to mind was one of the first posts I made on this site. Screen tops and glass aquariums. The debate went back and forth and I would say got a tiny bit heated, but I still come here and make posts. I learned some very interesting things from that post. (Oh and I do still use some screen tops and my snakes are not dehydrated yet ) The point is no matter how heated if we all stay focused on the matter at hand, dont resort to name calling, and keep an open mind a lot of things can be learned. One thing I have learned about this hobby is that there are a whole lot of ways to get to the same end result. Keep an open mind and you may just learn something. I know I learn something new everyday.
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Old 02-19-03, 12:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I also must absolutely agree with Pixie. One thing I really like about this site is that I have never once been slammed for having an opinion or expressing an opinion. I've gotten into the habit of saying "In my opinion" or "I think that" or something just to cover myself that what I am saying is simply my two cents. Not to be taken as instruction or giving orders or anything like that. I have had many bad experiences at other sites which I will not name that if I did not completely agree with someone I was debating I was a horrible person, and even an animal abuser!!! I have absolutely never, EVER experienced that here and I thank everyone here for providing an open venue free from attack. For a while I thought it was me, because on the other sites, I did voice my opinion when I disagreed with someone. But here, everyone takes it in stride. I have not seen anyone over exert themselves to try to change anyone else's opinion.

Take the age-old substrate debate (at least for Leopard Geckos). Head over to "you-know-where" and every 5 minutes there is a new 40 post long thread on the subject. Now i'm not saying it's not a healthy debate, but come on, that's just out of hand. I have yet to see such a thing here. Granted this site is less saturated with Leo lovers but I have been a member of leo sites with fewer members where the subject is still an emotional topic. So BW, yes I agree that people should feel free to express their opinions. It seems like we don't have such heated debated here but I think that's only because everyone here is respectful of everyone else's opionions.

One thing I have concluded with regards to reptiles is that there is very rarely a "right way" and a "wrong way" to do things. There are the big no-nos like hot rocks of course. Generally though, right and wrong depends on personality and what works for the keeper. For example the substrate thing: there are those who are more interested in safety of the animal and there are those who are more interested in the aesthetics of the enclosure. I personally and somewhere in between, i like to be as safe with my animals as I can while still creating an enclosure that looks cool. Neither is right or wrong, it just depends where your priorities lie.

Anyway, I think this is an interesting topic.
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Old 02-20-03, 10:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm a realist.
As for the other sites, well, if ya can't handle the truth about your animals and their care, ya aint gonna hack it anywhere.

I could care less about humans.

I am all for the pets we keep though.

I would rather see people putting out great info and educating others about proper care and husbandry for the animals that are kept, than to see a bunch of PC crap, like 'cool snake' 'your husbandry is off somewhat, but thats fine as long as YOU feel good about killing your snake' etc....

If some one is doing something wrong, then they will be told that by me and only a few others here.
When I have the time that is.

People seeking to be told that they are doing ok and fine etc, looking for approval of their care etc, when it is wrong, and taking things as insults when they are corrected, need not apply for the job as pet owner in my book.
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Old 02-20-03, 12:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Very good point Omen although....


U MUST be able to deliver it in an innofensive way.. unfortunetly, writting can be mis-interpreted.

Its not as obvious as it seems to tell them .. "Ure wrong" .. "u're gonna kill the animal" .. that without making the other person feel like she is being attacked or humilliated.. then again.. whats more important .. how the person feels or the care of the animals.

lol I am self conrtradiction.

I say be blunt and considerate... my .02$
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Old 02-20-03, 12:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I agree with you Dom. In my experience, it's a lot easier to get through to someone if you are considerate of their feelings, and respect their opinion as well as your own. The more respectful you are to someone, the more likely they are to value your advice. So in that way, being considerate to the person, affectively helps the animal more than being blunt, insulting and abrasive with your advice. As they say you catch more bees with honey than with....I don't remember how the rest goes.

Constructive criticism is the key, I suppose.
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Old 02-20-03, 12:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Constructive criticism is a farce and usually it is someones way of dancing around a subject instead of being totally honest.

Inoffensive? No.
BUT, to the point and not dancing around with a wishy washy answer is best here and in life.

In other words, honesty is the best suite to play with.
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Old 02-20-03, 04:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I learnd the hard way when you tell some one somthing and you suger coat it they only take what they want to hear and leave the rest when the animal dies they blame you for giving bad advice then you ask them what they did the only tell you half of what you said.

so now I say " I am not going to beat around the bush..you may mean well but if SUCH and SUCH is not changed and soon the
animale is going to die" and then I become polite again.
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Old 02-21-03, 11:46 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Well sure, sometimes the situation calls for being blunt. But to be rude right from the start wont get you anywhere either. I don't think sugar coating the situation is necessary, but there is nothing wrong with being considerate to the person you are trying to help. Being rude will only alienate them in the process and they will shut down no matter what and not listen to anything.
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