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Old 03-18-18, 05:29 AM   #1 (permalink)
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leaving hide box for food

Hi. My carpet stay in a hide box all the time. If I get her and place on a branches or in a separate cardboard box she eat her food. Should I do that or I have to wait until she start exiting from hidebox searching her food ?
Thanks.
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Old 03-18-18, 07:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Already mentioned it once, or twice, you are only heating your hide box and the rest of enclosure is way too cold and inadequately furnished for an Australian animal..
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Old 03-18-18, 07:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRD View Post
Already mentioned it once, or twice, you are only heating your hide box and the rest of enclosure is way too cold and inadequately furnished for an Australian animal..
I don't think so. In a small viv my carpets go to a branches every night. This type hiding comes since she had much bigger viv.
So your guess is wrong seem to me. Temperature is stayed the same.
24 Celsius it is normal temperature for a night. Anyway due to winter when breeding carpets have 10 Celsius at night and that's fine.
And it's not propriety make winter for breeding and deprive winter non breeding carpets. It's ridiculous.

And here the video about heating. If snake is day-hunting - lamp is better. If snake is night-hunting - heat pad is better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiIkOlPHl1M
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Old 03-18-18, 08:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

I saw your viv, that is not how you make a carpet thrive in captivity...

Try something like this:


You seem to have a great misunderstanding about the snake you keep and it's needs & requirements.

- Small box with no light is no way to keep this snake, snakes aren't blind, specifically pythons which can see all the way from UV to IR spectrum of light.

- Only heating 50% of the hide box is no way to heat a snake

- Assuming because during breeding season temperatures go down to 10C that this is fine any given day of the year is incorrect

- Assuming newspapers as substrate provide ample enrichment to the animal and trigger exploratory behavior is wrong

- Last time I saw your viv it was air sealed with no ventilation

- Last time I saw your viv it was an empty space with 2 branches, a hide, and a plastic bucket for water


I don't get why you expect the snake to explore if you give it nothing to explore?! If there's nothing to do, then snake will go into hiding, it will preserve energy for when it deems to find it useful to spend it... You're not going to see it ever unless you drag it out of its hide. How is that a proper way of keeping your snake? If I put you in an empty room with nothing but a bed, would you not constantly lay on the bed? Is there anything else for you to do there? No, right.

Last edited by TRD; 03-18-18 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 03-18-18, 08:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

And about heating, you are wrong, that video is wrong too.

Nocturnal simply means its activity spike is during night, or for crepuscular during sunrise or sunset.

This doesn't mean the animal is not active at all druing the day when the sun is shining. These are ectothermal animals and NEED the heat of the sun for their health and benefit. All reptiles will bask during the day, even the most nocturnal gecko you can find is found basking during the day.
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Old 03-18-18, 02:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRD View Post
I saw your viv, that is not how you make a carpet thrive in captivity...
So how most breeders breed their snake in plastic bins ? If snakes are stressed they don't even eat.

Quote:
- Small box with no light is no way to keep this snake, snakes aren't blind, specifically pythons which can see all the way from UV to IR spectrum of light.
110 liter is small box for juvenile ?
My snake has light from a window !! That's enough.

Quote:
- Only heating 50% of the hide box is no way to heat a snake
actually my snake lay on thermal sensor. So I know exactly how is her temperature.
And did you see the video I gave above ? bc looks like you didnt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiIkOlPHl1M

Quote:
- Assuming because during breeding season temperatures go down to 10C that this is fine any given day of the year is incorrect
So adult snakes must have winter time and juveniles dont have winter. Is that what are you talking about ?

Quote:
- Assuming newspapers as substrate provide ample enrichment to the animal and trigger exploratory behavior is wrong
I use paper towels now. So you are wrong.

Quote:
- Last time I saw your viv it was air sealed with no ventilation
Read about convection already.

Quote:
- Last time I saw your viv it was an empty space with 2 branches, a hide, and a plastic bucket for water
I added green branches with leaves

Quote:
I don't get why you expect the snake to explore if you give it nothing to explore?! If there's nothing to do, then snake will go into hiding, it will preserve energy for when it deems to find it useful to spend it... You're not going to see it ever unless you drag it out of its hide. How is that a proper way of keeping your snake?
There is several youtube channels. 3 of them from USA. And a lot of snakes live in plastic boxes, eat and give babies.

And you don't listen to me at all.
I say she was away hide box every night when she was in 10 times smaller plastic bin and you don't hear me and again this song about bad viv. And no matter that snakes live and breed in much smaller plastic boxes if we take breeders.
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Old 03-18-18, 03:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Snakes will breed when stressed just fine. In fact there are studies that animal in distress breed more readily as a survival instinct, so that argument is nonsense. "It breeds" is not a good measurement for good husbandry AT ALL.

Light from a window is not enough, it contains no UV nor will it pass sufficient IR.

Your heating still sucks. Snake always laying on warm spot is a bad sign.

No, I'm talking about that if a snake can sustain low temperatures during a natural brumation period, this should only be done DURING BRUMATION and never at any other time.

Paper towel is the same as newspaper. It's a bad substrate (if you can even call it substrate) choice.

Convection doesn't help ventilation when there are no ventilation holes.

Good you added some greens.

Plastic boxes at breeders are not a standard of keeping you should be aiming at. Husbandry practices should be aimed at the wellbeing and replication of the natural environment of the animal in a controlled deprivated way (ie- you add everything that is possible, but don't add things you don't want - like its natural predators or diseases).

If you compare yourself to a tub keeper, and believe what they are doing is fine, you are sadly mistaking. I can lock a boy and a girl human in a dark basement for 30 years, I add food and water, they can also survive and breed just fine. Does that make it right? Do you think eating and producing babies is the right measurement you should use for success?

Your snake is constantly hiding, doesn't show itself, only lays on a minimal heat element you gave it, doesn't have enrichment nor showing any natural behaviors, do you believe this is normal? You even notice it is not normal simply by your question in this post... you need to change your ways of keeping this snake. It's bad for the snake, its causing you a headache to deal with it, it's not good for anyone.

Last edited by TRD; 03-18-18 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 03-18-18, 04:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRD View Post

Light from a window is not enough, it contains no UV nor will it pass sufficient IR.
Links to researches nightly snakes need UV ?

Quote:
Your heating still sucks. Snake always laying on warm spot is a bad sign.
hide box is big enough to include both cold and hot spots.

Quote:
No, I'm talking about that if a snake can sustain low temperatures during a natural brumation period, this should only be done DURING BRUMATION and never at any other time.
it's not brumation. It's just winter time. And 24 Celsius is fine.

Quote:
Paper towel is the same as newspaper. It's a bad substrate (if you can even call it substrate) choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZLvBAQdrUw
Kelly says paper towels is ok. And no reason to apply to unnatural things. Leaving in vivs with plenty food and water and with no parasites it's unnatural too.

Quote:
Convection doesn't help ventilation when there are no ventilation holes.
there are vent rows at bottom and under sealing.



Quote:
Plastic boxes at breeders are not a standard of keeping you should be aiming at. Husbandry practices should be aimed at the wellbeing and replication of the natural environment of the animal in a controlled deprivated way (ie- you add everything that is possible, but don't add things you don't want - like its natural predators or diseases).
things aren't always perfect.


Quote:
Your snake is constantly hiding, doesn't show itself, only lays on a minimal heat element you gave it, doesn't have enrichment nor showing any natural behaviors, do you believe this is normal?
she has big hide box with both hot and cold spots.
And I say 3 times already she had same viv but with no greens and 10 times smaller, same temperatures and she was out of box every evening.
.
.
.
Maybe she afraid big viv.
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Last edited by kazz; 03-18-18 at 04:40 PM..
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Old 03-18-18, 04:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Study on how much UV is required for reptiles based on where they are found in the wild and their basking behavior:
View of How much UVB does my reptile need? The UV-Tool, a guide to the selection of UV lighting for reptiles and amphibians in captivity.

Study on the increase measured in corn snakes Vitamin D3 levels once provided with a minimal UV light source. Here we can see a drastic increase (4x) in this critical hormone:
https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/ab.../ajvr.69.2.294

Study on the spectral transmission of snake and gecko eyes:
http://repository.naturalis.nl/document/555628

Study on the retina and spectacle of snakes:
https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article...25599#87278724

Study on the eyes of Boa constrictor:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/....1002/jez.1076

Study on the eyes of Python regius:
The photoreceptors and visual pigments in the retina of a boid snake, the ball python (Python regius) | Journal of Experimental Biology


And since reptiles, amphibians, mammals, birds, all belong to VERTEBRATES, all studies that involve Vitamin D3 and its role in metabolism also apply to your Carpet python, or any other snake. It's a huge list of studies, and I'm sure you are able to find plenty of information on google on the benefits of sunlight, or specifically the role of vitamin D3 if you not yet know about it.

People always tend to bring forward that "snakes eat whole prey diet, and have so for decades in captivity without adding UV because their prey contains what they need" which I'm not about to refute. However the levels of vitamin D3 between captive and wild specimen vary wildly. Leading to believe that captive snakes may well be in a state of constant hypovitaminosis D or close to it. They may have enough to stay alive, but may not actually thrive.

And totally on the other side of that, many snake species, and more specifically crepuscular and nocturnal species, have UV sensitive eyes (see study linked above) - so they can see this spectrum. Not providing them with this is like you living your day in constant yellow light (when we would remove blue completely for you). It is thought that this supports them in foraging for prey (as urinates light up under UV), predator avoidance, and possibly mate selection/communication.

Last edited by TRD; 03-18-18 at 05:02 PM..
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Old 03-18-18, 05:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

TRD, it's interesting reading. I will read them more a bit later. Thanks a lot.
And according to first doc you need UV meter to place UV lamp correctly.
I don''t think anyone had UV meter.
Now the questions.
1. all plants is under sun and we can say plants need UV. But look at all home plants. They all grow pеrfectly without any UV.
2. if I have UV lamp how can snake get UV if she always away when comes a light ? And even in nature carpets hunt at night and prefer hide at day time.
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Old 03-18-18, 05:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

1. Plants don't need UV, actually they have UV protection in their leaves
2. Provide enough cover for the snake to feel secure. Even nocturnal snakes will use UV - even if they just put a part of their body under it. Basking behavior differs from species to species. I have diurnal snakes, and they bask openly during the day, while my crepuscular snakes bask during day but under plant cover where they still get UV and heat and feel protected.

I do have a UV meter, but there are online guides as well on exactly how much UV is emitted by different light sources... f.e. this one: BIAZA RAWG UV Tool
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Old 03-18-18, 06:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

taking UV under leaves it's quite doubtfully to me. You must take a cave stile hide off and make some leaves like hide.
I remember this guy and his searching of wild snakes. They hide in a places with no light at all.

I think UV lamp can be used but not so necessary. I think I will get UV lamp later and make a hide box from a grid with holes.
Anyway when the weather become warmer I will take a snake under real sun.

And UV can't be reason why she is constantly in hide box.
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Old 03-18-18, 06:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

Here's example of snake using UV/basking which is a crepuscular species (L. g. nigrita)



And sure snakes are found in places with no light at all. That doesn't mean they life in complete darkness all the time. And certainly when someone as large as a human is approaching they'll feel it and retreat under rocks, logs, or whether they are using as shelter.
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Old 03-18-18, 07:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

I try to feed my snakes when they're already outside of their hides which most of them usually are anyway. If they're not out searching for food then they don't get fed.

I won't get into a debate on subjective issues but there's no one right way to keep snakes. You can keep critters in tubs, tanks, pvc, or wooden enclosures and they can thrive just fine. I don't offer UV lights in any of my enclosures. I currently have animals in tubs, tanks, and pvc enclosures and they're all healthy and thriving. They're all active, eat well, shed and poop regularly, and are all growing at a good pace. What other measures of well being can we go by? I've seen animals do well in elaborate and minimalist enclosures. Most of my enclosures are equipped with substrate, a heating source that's regulated by a thermostat, one or two hides, a water bowl and a few have perches or shelves. That's it. Nothing fancy but very functional. As long as what you're doing works for the animals in your care then more power to you.

@TRD- very nice enclosure! I wish I could get somebody to create something like that for me.
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Old 03-18-18, 07:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: leaving hide box for food

TRD, actually nice looking. And it's a live plant. Snake are small definitely. I will add UV lamp later and it will take quite a lot of reading. I was feeding my carpet 10 mins ago. I was placing a batch of quails in a feed box and let her in. But she stops when she was half in a box and in a min she started eat and was sitting on my hand wile she were eating.
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