border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Boa Forums > Epicrates

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-17, 03:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
bigsnakegirl785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2011
Location: Waynesville
Age: 23
Posts: 3,675
Country:
RIP Morzan

After a long, hard battle and a lot of consideration, I had Morzan euthanized today. When it became clear even 2 pinkie mice every 4-6 days wasn't helping him to turn around, I figured it was best to end his suffering. He would have been 2 years old next month.

These photos were taken outside today before taking him to the vet's office. He just keeps withering away, and I knew last night he was just too far gone to help. As you can see in the photos, he was losing coloration and is almost skeletal. He has been kept nice and humid, and not too wet, so this isn't a hydration issue. He just got so emaciated his skin was losing health.

When he passed, the vet picked him up and his skin just tore away at the neck. The vet used lethal injection, but he was gone in seconds. I'm just glad his suffering is over. I am going to try to get a necropsy done, hopefully the injection won't mess with the results too much, but at the very least maybe they could see if it was a physical deformity causing this condition. Whether or not I get the necropsy done depends on if my vehicle is reliable enough to make the 40+ minute drive to the diagnostic center, since I only have a short window of time to get him in for results.

In the shade.



In the sunlight.



His head is the main area losing color, but there's also a thin strip following his spine that was losing color, too.



As he got thinner, his belly go wrinklier and wrinklier. There's also that big dark area that's worrisome. It's pretty much always been present.



A close up of the dark area.



If anyone isn't familiar with his story, he has this thread that I've kept updated fairly well, detailing the majority of everything I've tried with him.
__________________
0.0.1 ball python Bud - 3.3 BI Cloud, sunglow Nymeria, ghost Tirel, anery motley Crona, ghost Howl, jungle Dominika - 2.0 garter snake eastern Demigod, checkered Draco - 0.1 retic Riverrun - 1.1 BRB Sanji, hypo Homura - RIP Guin and Morzan, 1.1 Picasso stripe BRB
bigsnakegirl785 is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 06-09-17, 04:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug-2015
Location: Louisville
Posts: 519
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. Hard as it might have been, you made the right decision and I'm sure you did everything in your power to try and alleviate his suffering.
Tiny Boidae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-17, 04:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Tsubaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan-2014
Posts: 4,255
Country:
Send a message via Skype™ to Tsubaki
Re: RIP Morzan

I'm sorry for your loss, you made the right decision ending it here. Poor little guy...
__________________
Aho ni toriau baka!- Baka wa shinanakya naoranai...
Tsubaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-17, 08:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
EL Ziggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2013
Location: ATL
Posts: 5,954
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

I'm sorry for your loss as well BSG. You did your best but sometimes they just don't thrive no matter what we do. RIP Morzan.
__________________
0.1 Albino Bull Snake (She-RA)~ 1.0 Snow Bull Snake (Apollo)~ 1.0 Coastal Carpet Python (Chomper)~ 1.0 JCP (Shredder)~ 1.0 Bredl Python (S'ven)~ 0.1 JJ x JCP (Trinity)~ 0.1 Albino Carpet Python (Akasha)~ 1.0 Olive Python (Nigel)
EL Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-17, 05:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2015
Posts: 2,197
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Sorry to hear this bsg. You put everything you could into this snake - no one could have done more - and I think you made the right call at the end even though I can only imagine what a hard decision it was.
__________________
0.1 B imperator, 1.0 M spilota harrisoni, 1.0 C hortulanus, 2.1 P reticulatus (Madu locality), 1.1 S amethystine, 1.1 L olivaceous, 1.0 C angulifer, 1.0 Z persicus, 0.1 P regius, 0.1 N natrix, 0.1 E climacophora, 1.0 P obsoletus, 0.1 L geluta nigrtia, 1.0 P catenifer sayi, 1.0 T lepidus
dannybgoode is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 06-10-17, 07:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
SnoopySnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2013
Location: Flint
Posts: 2,254
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Im so sorry-you did great with him and made his life as good as you could. It's good he's no longer suffering
__________________
1.1 Columbian Rainbow Boas | 1.0 White Lipped/D'Alberts Python | 0.1 Bredli Pythons | 3.1 Gargoyle Geckos | 0.0.1 Mangrove Monitor | 1.0 Cat | 0.1 Boxweiler | 1.0 Human
-Adrian
SnoopySnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-17, 07:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2017
Age: 58
Posts: 1,020
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Heartfelt condolences, that was a beautiful snake!
__________________
1.2.4 Boidae | 1.3.8 Colubridae | 0.0.2 Dipsadidae | 0.0.8 Pythonidae |3.0.0 Canis lupus familiaris | 1.0.0 Homo Sapiens Sapiens Stultus
Scubadiver59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-17, 03:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
ThirteenRavens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb-2016
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 228
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

I'm so sorry for your loss I know that when we do necropsies, most of the time the animals have been euthanized and we haven't had any issues as far as that goes with interfering with the results we need. I hope you can find the answers you seek <3
__________________
2.1 Canis familiaris 2.0 Felis catus 2.0 Python regius 1.2 Pantherophis guttatus 1.0 Heterodon nasicus 0.1 Charina bottae 1.0 Hypo Hog Island boa
ThirteenRavens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-17, 03:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
bigsnakegirl785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2011
Location: Waynesville
Age: 23
Posts: 3,675
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Thank you everyone. I'm glad I had time to get used to this outcome, so I could come to peace with the decision quicker. I still cried a decent bit yesterday, but I'm feeling better now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirteenRavens View Post
I'm so sorry for your loss I know that when we do necropsies, most of the time the animals have been euthanized and we haven't had any issues as far as that goes with interfering with the results we need. I hope you can find the answers you seek <3
That's good to hear, he'll be dropped off at the end of the wait period (3 days) since the center is closed Sat and Sun, but he was immediately refrigerated after euthanization so it shouldn't affect the sample too much.

I'll update this thread with the results once they're in.
__________________
0.0.1 ball python Bud - 3.3 BI Cloud, sunglow Nymeria, ghost Tirel, anery motley Crona, ghost Howl, jungle Dominika - 2.0 garter snake eastern Demigod, checkered Draco - 0.1 retic Riverrun - 1.1 BRB Sanji, hypo Homura - RIP Guin and Morzan, 1.1 Picasso stripe BRB
bigsnakegirl785 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-17, 06:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Albert Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar-2015
Posts: 3,189
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Geez, what a terrible outcome after all the exemplary care you've given him. Truly sorry for the loss. I'm with EL on the failure to thrive with all the multifaceted possibilities. Kudos to you for all you've done to try and get him well.
Albert Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 06-11-17, 02:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
dave himself's Avatar
 
Join Date: May-2012
Location: Belfast
Age: 53
Posts: 3,425
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

I'm very sorry for your loss BSG
__________________
I've gazed at the stars too fondly
To be afraid of the night
dave himself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 01:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
bigsnakegirl785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2011
Location: Waynesville
Age: 23
Posts: 3,675
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Well I got the results in today.

They said that there were multifocal areas of hemorrhage in the wall of the proximal intestine, which I assume was from the injection. They did also say the esophagus was thin-walled, and his digestive tract was empty save for a small bit of feces in the distal intestinal tract. He had eaten 10 days before euthanization, but I had not found any feces in his tub so I hadn't fed him yet just in case he was backed up. I guess he wasn't.

The histopathology showed that "moderate to marked autolysis of liver and mild to moderate autolysis of sections of intestines precludes proper histological assessment." Which I assume means that the destruction of his tissues in these areas was unable to be properly diagnosed?

His kidneys had tubular gamonts and oocysts, moderate with tubular hyperplasia, and mild to moderate granulocytic and lymphoplasmacytic nephritis. From what I can find on google, gamonts are organisms, and are classified as hemoparasites if I'm understanding correctly. Oocysts are associated with crypto. It looks like tubular hyperplasia is a congential heart disease that constricts the aorta. I'm having a hard time finding information on the nephritis, but appears to basically be renal failure, possibly chronic. If that is the case, then the renal problems probably came before the injection. More gamonts were found in the ureter.

In the intestine there was "erosive, granulocytic and lymphoplasmatic enteritis, multifocal, mild with mild to moderate lamina propria fibrosis." The granulocytic enteritis seems to be associated with worms. It's hard to find information on the enteritis, but the lymphoplasmatic seems to be associated with crypto, and appears to be an infectious stomatitis.

In the liver signs of sinusoidal fibrin deposition was found, which as far as I can tell is basically saying there was cell damage.

So basically the diagnosis is renal coccidiosis, with Cryptosporidium being a major concern. They couldn't find a cause for the repeated regurges, so it seems crypto is just a possibility.

So basically he had a lot wrong with him, with a parasite problem. I really, really hope it's not crypto. I'm going to call and see if I can speak with the ones who did his necropsy and see if they can further explain this. I've had him 1.5 years and as far as I know, none of the other snakes have shown signs of crypto.

I can PM a copy of the necropsy if anyone is experienced with clinical terms and would like to read it, or post it in the thread if that's allowed. It's very possible I missed a lot or misunderstood what I did find.
__________________
0.0.1 ball python Bud - 3.3 BI Cloud, sunglow Nymeria, ghost Tirel, anery motley Crona, ghost Howl, jungle Dominika - 2.0 garter snake eastern Demigod, checkered Draco - 0.1 retic Riverrun - 1.1 BRB Sanji, hypo Homura - RIP Guin and Morzan, 1.1 Picasso stripe BRB
bigsnakegirl785 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 02:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
bigsnakegirl785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2011
Location: Waynesville
Age: 23
Posts: 3,675
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

So I talked to the vet, turns out there wasn't anything wrong with his heart, so not sure what the tubular hyperplasia is as that's the only thing I found related to that. He said that crypto was mentioned as a possibility because of his history, but they didn't actually find any physical evidence. After discussing the other snakes with him, and with the amount of time I had him (1.5 years), he seems to think crypto isn't likely since I haven't experienced symptoms in my other snakes during this time. So for now, I don't think crypto is likely but I'll keep an eye out for the symptoms he mentioned and intervene immediately if I suspect crypto. He said to look out for diarrhea, stomach swelling, regurgitation, weight loss, and anything else odd like that.

So, basically, they found a bunch of scarring and internal damage from his chronic issues, but they couldn't identify a cause 100%.
__________________
0.0.1 ball python Bud - 3.3 BI Cloud, sunglow Nymeria, ghost Tirel, anery motley Crona, ghost Howl, jungle Dominika - 2.0 garter snake eastern Demigod, checkered Draco - 0.1 retic Riverrun - 1.1 BRB Sanji, hypo Homura - RIP Guin and Morzan, 1.1 Picasso stripe BRB
bigsnakegirl785 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 02:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec-2002
Location: London
Posts: 3,027
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Oocysts are simply zygotes of an internal parasite and may have nothing at all to do with crypto. Don't think he would've lived that long with crypto.

Sorry for your loss.
Andy_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 02:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
bigsnakegirl785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2011
Location: Waynesville
Age: 23
Posts: 3,675
Country:
Re: RIP Morzan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
Oocysts are simply zygotes of an internal parasite and may have nothing at all to do with crypto. Don't think he would've lived that long with crypto.

Sorry for your loss.
That's what I figured, but I don't know enough about it so I figured better to look into it as a possibility anyway. It's unfortunate they weren't able to find a cause, but at least now I know that there was simply too much wrong with him to have any hope of turning him around.
__________________
0.0.1 ball python Bud - 3.3 BI Cloud, sunglow Nymeria, ghost Tirel, anery motley Crona, ghost Howl, jungle Dominika - 2.0 garter snake eastern Demigod, checkered Draco - 0.1 retic Riverrun - 1.1 BRB Sanji, hypo Homura - RIP Guin and Morzan, 1.1 Picasso stripe BRB
bigsnakegirl785 is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0