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Old 09-19-16, 03:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

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I *rarely* see babies at 36 grams. That's huge for a baby rainbow. I can look up my stats of you like, but I've tracked each and every birth weight for at least ten litters....

I agree with you they grow a bit faster on hoppers, and I do feed those every now and then, but I see getting them on rats pre-sale as a benefit to the customer.

And I've seen some *really* stubborn snakes. ;-)
That would be cool! You don't have to go out of your way if it's too much trouble, though.

I think Sanji was born at 35 or 36 grams (don't have his card anymore and didn't record it on iHerp so he could have been lighter but was definitely over 30 grams), Homura was 32, Morzan was 31, and Guin was 36 grams. I could probably ask Dave to look up Sanji's records, I think he keeps all of them but not sure.

Dave sends cards with all recorded feedings, weights, and sheds since birth. I think it's really cool to know birth weights so I'm thinking of doing the same thing when I start breeding boa constrictors.

lol Me, too, believe me. I have a ball python! Took me 1.5 years to get him switch to f/t. Probably wouldn't have taken so long if I hadn't kept giving in and giving him live, though.
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Old 09-19-16, 05:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

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Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785 View Post
That would be cool! You don't have to go out of your way if it's too much trouble, though.

I think Sanji was born at 35 or 36 grams (don't have his card anymore and didn't record it on iHerp so he could have been lighter but was definitely over 30 grams), Homura was 32, Morzan was 31, and Guin was 36 grams. I could probably ask Dave to look up Sanji's records, I think he keeps all of them but not sure.

Dave sends cards with all recorded feedings, weights, and sheds since birth. I think it's really cool to know birth weights so I'm thinking of doing the same thing when I start breeding boa constrictors.

lol Me, too, believe me. I have a ball python! Took me 1.5 years to get him switch to f/t. Probably wouldn't have taken so long if I hadn't kept giving in and giving him live, though.
I'm going to show my ignorance on the subject here, but is a hopper a living mouse? When I went to the reptile store to get some meals for Crystal, I asked the guy when I should switch her from hoppers to rats... He said now! so I went with a f/t fuzzy rat which she is eating... I never did see a hopper... The word hopper suggest... well they hop? So alive or not?
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Old 09-19-16, 05:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

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I'm going to show my ignorance on the subject here, but is a hopper a living mouse? When I went to the reptile store to get some meals for Crystal, I asked the guy when I should switch her from hoppers to rats... He said now! so I went with a f/t fuzzy rat which she is eating... I never did see a hopper... The word hopper suggest... well they hop? So alive or not?
*I only feed frozen/thawed

That is logical thinking, but no
A "hopper" is a stage (like pinky, fuzzy, hopper, small adult).

I order my mice on-line in bulk, and it is SO much cheaper, even after paying for shipping. Also, the boxes are huge for one price, so I share shipping with my local snake keeping friends.

Check out "rodentpro.com".
Here is an explanation of a hopper from rodentpro:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rodent pr.jpg (26.0 KB, 26 views)
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Old 09-19-16, 05:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

*moderators, how do I make a pic smaller when posting as an attachment? (See ridiculously sized pic above) LOL
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Old 09-19-16, 05:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

X2 what jellybean said. I have also used rodent pro. It is a savings of about 400.00%. Where I live, large rats are 10.00 each live or frozen. From rodent pro they are 2.00. As stated, to make the most of the savings be sure to fill the shipping box all the way. They even have a calculator to help with that.
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Old 09-19-16, 06:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

I tend to avoid Rodent Pro because there have been at least two zoonotic outbreaks from their facility, killing snakes. They breed some of their stock, and some of their stock is outsourced from unknown places. They're one of the cheapest out there but I wouldn't trust their products in my animals.

I use Big Cheese mainly, but Perfect Prey and Layne Labs are my two back ups.

As JellyBean said, hopper is a stage of development. It's two sizes up from a pinkie mouse. So pinkie -> fuzzy -> hopper -> small/medium adult (some places blend the two together some separate them) -> jumbo adult mouse.

The online prices reaaaaally save you money. I went from spending $500/yr on 3 snake not including the gas for a one-way 45 minute drive, to spending $260-280/yr on 11. Not including any mishaps or increases in prey size. Once everybody are adults, assuming all of the rainbows are eating medium rats, all the boa constrictors eating large rats, the retic eating 1-2 colossal rats, and the garters eating pinkies, I should spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $300/yr on all of them. So not a phenomenal difference. In reality, the boa constrictors would be eating half as many rats and the retic eating nothing online, as I get rabbits for free from my father, so I could spend about the same or less of what I'm spending now, for as long as he gives me rabbits.
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Old 09-19-16, 06:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

Oh i see... Is a size, not that it hops around... I must be luck... I can get small rats for a $1.50 a piece from my local reptile store... I can't do better then that with shipping...
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Old 09-19-16, 07:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

Well, when they're alive they're hopping around, it's the stage right before they're weaned and right after they open their eyes. They literally hop around everywhere, it's adorable. haha But when it comes to snake food it's just a size.

$1.50 isn't bad, the pet store I was buying from was selling small rats at ~$4 a pop. $1.50 was what I was paying per mouse pinkie.
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Old 09-20-16, 01:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

Will do.

I send cards too -- it's a nice touch for sure.

LOL balls are notorious for that behavior. It literally is like trying to feed a pet rock. ;-)
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Old 09-20-16, 01:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

I agree on Rodent Pro...but I've also heard whispers about Big Cheese, so stopped using them. Perfect Prey and Layne Labs are better choices, but also pricier.
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Old 09-21-16, 07:24 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

This thread had strayed a little off topic, but I want to add that I followed the Rodent Pro BOI thread when the outbreak occurred. At the time I had some feeders from their company in my freezer and young children at home so I was very concerned about the issue. I was not pleased with how they handled the situation. But there was never any mention of snakes dying, or non-employees getting infected, so if you have proof of then please post it on fauna. If not, spreading grossly exaggerated rumors without any shred of BOI quality evidence is just plain irresponsible, regardless of what you feel about the company or the quality of their product.
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Old 09-21-16, 02:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

Here are those stats:

My heaviest litter came in at a stunning 44 grams. My average litter was 31 grams. My lightest litter came in at 28 grams. Excluding the heavy one, the high was 35 and the average 30.
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Old 09-21-16, 05:28 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

Wow, 44 grams! What a ginormous baby. You don't happen to have pictures of that monstrosity do you? lol

Also chairman, I'm only going off of articles I've read, and the fact they outsource any of their stock is reason enough for me to avoid them.
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Old 09-22-16, 02:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

So I posted this situation on FB hoping to hit a wider audience of experienced keepers for his scale issues, but other than Dave, I've had two people comment and both were giving me advise on changing his feeding to prey items I know he can't keep down. So I'll just stick to this thread. lol I assume babies with regurge issues aren't a common thing overall otherwise they would realize that Morzan isn't 50 grams at 14 months for no reason. It's also so weird to me these two so adamantly pushing me to switch him to rats when mice are more nutritious at this stage, he's just eating abnormally small ones, even with the fact aside he couldn't get a rat pink down.

I'm also currently calling around for a vet, the one I had in mind wasn't in so they've referred me to other vets.
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Old 09-22-16, 02:23 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Gaining weight fast enough?

BSG...I have ALWAYS observed faster growth rates when starting off with rats or offering properly sized rats as soon as possible. Can I explain why? Not really because adult mice are more nutritious that rat pinkies, fuzzies or pups as you mentioned However, I have observed over the years with multiple species, both boids and colubrids, that snakes will grow much faster when eating rats in comparison to those on similar sized mice. The adults also tended to be larger overall. I am not alone in seeing this and many would state the same observation so don't be surprised to hear it from others in the future (as well as the proposal to switching to rats ASAP). I wish I had compiled data to show, but since I don't have that, my observations must be regarded as purely subjective and taken with a grain of salt.
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