border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Colubrid Forums > Elaphe Guttata Guttata

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-18, 06:51 AM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2017
Age: 59
Posts: 1,328
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

You think money grows on trees?

Even though I spent tens of thousands of dollars on my dogs, for various cancer treatments, I hate to say it but an MRI for a snake would never happen due to the cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazz View Post
Does vet have magnetic resonance imaging scanner ?
__________________
2.5.4 Boidae | 4.7.13 Colubridae | 2.3.6 Pythonidae | 2.0.0 Canis lupus familiaris | 1.0.0 Homo Sapiens Sapiens Stultus
Scubadiver59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-18, 07:27 AM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2015
Posts: 71
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Yeah, I can't really afford an MRI on a 15 year old snake. I'm pretty sure my vet doesn't even have one. There are not a lot of great options for herp vets around here. There are only a few vets that will take herps.

I'm sure we can diagnose it without that.

My vet did say she would mention the case to their ultrasound person. Sometimes he takes interesting cases for free. Alternatively, she needs to find out the cost of an ultrasound on a snake.

But honestly I think aspirating it for a biopsy sounds like a pretty good option if the antibiotics don't clear it up.
Neon Aurora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-18, 11:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2017
Age: 59
Posts: 1,328
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

My reptile vet here in Norther VA, SEAVS, has been my go to vet for all my snakes. I've been there with a Yellow Rat that had a lump, my BCC had RI, my Coastal CP had scale damage, and my Red Tail Green Rat had an abcess in it's nose. All of those were treated with two different antibiotics and an anti-inflammatory and all turned out well.

Hopefully what you're doing will work, but be patient due to its metabolism...the results will be slow in showing if there are any improvements and reduction in size of the site.

There have been quite a few cases of cancer showing up in different forums and FB so I'm wondering if we're breeding that into them due to the lack of bloodlines. I've heard that same discussion with dog breeds, and both of MY purebred Dobermans have had issues with either cancer (killed my female) or kidney disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neon Aurora View Post
Yeah, I can't really afford an MRI on a 15 year old snake. I'm pretty sure my vet doesn't even have one. There are not a lot of great options for herp vets around here. There are only a few vets that will take herps.

I'm sure we can diagnose it without that.

My vet did say she would mention the case to their ultrasound person. Sometimes he takes interesting cases for free. Alternatively, she needs to find out the cost of an ultrasound on a snake.

But honestly I think aspirating it for a biopsy sounds like a pretty good option if the antibiotics don't clear it up.
__________________
2.5.4 Boidae | 4.7.13 Colubridae | 2.3.6 Pythonidae | 2.0.0 Canis lupus familiaris | 1.0.0 Homo Sapiens Sapiens Stultus
Scubadiver59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-18, 01:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2015
Posts: 71
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Good point on the metabolism. I have 2 weeks worth of meds so maybe after the full course I could expect something to happen.


Definitely a possibility on the cancer thing. It wouldn't surprise me. My sister got this snake from Petsmart when she was a kid, so probably didn't have the most savory origins.


I'm going to get her some food today and try the egg yolk thing. I really don't think it's a blockage, though.
Neon Aurora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-18, 03:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2017
Posts: 390
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazz View Post
Neon Aurora, your sister is really bad person. If I were you I'd stop relations with her. Sorry. I hope you settle this problem with snake and your sister. But women .... I am sure your sister spend much money for women's useless **** and don't wanna take care of it's snake.
I think that's a bit excessive since you don't know her. You have no clue what she spends money on and no reason to say she's a bad person.
I swear you just like to stir up controversy.
craigafrechette is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 07-26-18, 03:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2017
Posts: 390
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neon Aurora View Post
Okay, back from vet appointment. We still don't really know what it is.

Here is the picture of the xray:



Nothing obvious. Definitely not eggs, possibly intestinal blockage but no real evidence of that. So we are thinking an abscess or a tumor.


It's below her lungs but above her kidneys and reproductive system. Vet said that the pancreas, stomach, and intestines are in that region.


My vet advised me to feed her something small (like a fuzzy or something) dipped in egg yolk. Apparently that has a lubricant effect. I thought mineral oil would be better, though. Any ideas?

She said to see if she can pass that or if she regurgitates it or anything.

She also gave me 5 doses (first one given today) of an injectable antibiotic that I am to give her every 3 days. Hopefully if it's an abscess, that'll clear it up.

Recheck in a week. If that doesn't help, the next step would be to aspirate it and send a sample off to the biopsy lab. Then we can see if it's a tumor or something else.

I am to give her warm baths daily and keep her temps and humidity higher than average.
Thanks for the update. You're doing a great job, especially considering the snake doesn't even belong to you. Hats off to you!
craigafrechette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-18, 03:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
Member
 
kazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2017
Posts: 313
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubadiver59 View Post
You think money grows on trees?

Even though I spent tens of thousands of dollars on my dogs, for various cancer treatments, I hate to say it but an MRI for a snake would never happen due to the cost.
I don't know about prices. No need to be rude (
__________________
Sorry my English Feel free to correct my mistakes.
kazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-18, 05:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec-2017
Posts: 390
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazz View Post
No need to be rude (
This coming from you????? I dont know if that comment is more hypocritical or hilarious!!!
craigafrechette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-18, 10:03 AM   #24 (permalink)
Member
 
kazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2017
Posts: 313
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigafrechette View Post
I think that's a bit excessive since you don't know her. You have no clue what she spends money on and no reason to say she's a bad person.
Topicstarter said
Quote:
It's a long story, but this is not the first animal that I've had to deal with because she was unwilling/didn't have money/insert other excuse here.
So my opinion she's a bad person. Can I have my own opinion ?! Thanks )
__________________
Sorry my English Feel free to correct my mistakes.
kazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-18, 10:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2015
Posts: 71
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

I think it'd be good to not argue about unrelated things in my thread.


Although I will say that you are being quite rude, Kazz. I came here for some help and advice about a snake, not for people to make comments about my family situation. I mentioned it because it was relevant to the snake's problem. And I got the advice I wanted; the snake needs medical attention, it can't wait, so I should find a way to help the snake regardless of whatever family issues I am having.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kazz View Post
Neon Aurora, your sister is really bad person. If I were you I'd stop relations with her. Sorry. I hope you settle this problem with snake and your sister. But women .... I am sure your sister spend much money for women's useless **** and don't wanna take care of it's snake.

This is a sexist statement and you should probably refrain from saying things like that on the forum. I'm sure there are plenty of men who would rather buy other things than spend money on a snake's healthcare too.


Anyways, probably would be better to get back on topic. I don't have much to update right now, nothing has changed. Her next injection is tomorrow. I didn't have time to get her food yesterday, but will today.
Neon Aurora is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 07-27-18, 11:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec-2002
Location: London
Posts: 3,240
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Going forward, any members engaging each other in a negative manner in this thread will have comments deleted and warnings issued in private. A lot of us have strong feelings about this situation, but if anyone has something personal to say, take it to private messages. This stops now.
Andy_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-18, 07:17 AM   #27 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul-2018
Posts: 6
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Honestly, sounds like this vet has very little reptile experience. I am not a vet, I am a nurse, but life is life humans to snakes. It's all process of elimination and research for answers. I hope your vet asked you these exact questions, but I'll give finding an answer a shot if you can help me narrow down my search with some answers.

-First off, how long has this snake had this lump?
-Did it appear one day or did it grow, if so, how long did it take to grow to it's size and is it still growing?
-Is the lump painful, does the snake guard or react in any way if you squeeze it. Try squeezing a different part of the snake with the same force and then squeeze the lump, tell me if there is a difference.
-Is the lump hard and fixed? or does it move a tiny bit up and down? Can you indent the lump as if it was fluid filled or is it hard like a rock?
-When is the last time this snake ate food? Is it defecating/regurgitating?
-Anything else to add
twentyeggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-18, 07:42 AM   #28 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2015
Posts: 71
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyeggs View Post
Honestly, sounds like this vet has very little reptile experience. I am not a vet, I am a nurse, but life is life humans to snakes. It's all process of elimination and research for answers. I hope your vet asked you these exact questions, but I'll give finding an answer a shot if you can help me narrow down my search with some answers.

-First off, how long has this snake had this lump?
-Did it appear one day or did it grow, if so, how long did it take to grow to it's size and is it still growing?
-Is the lump painful, does the snake guard or react in any way if you squeeze it. Try squeezing a different part of the snake with the same force and then squeeze the lump, tell me if there is a difference.
-Is the lump hard and fixed? or does it move a tiny bit up and down? Can you indent the lump as if it was fluid filled or is it hard like a rock?
-When is the last time this snake ate food? Is it defecating/regurgitating?
-Anything else to add

I mean, she's not mainly a herp vet, no. She is small animal but also certified to do exotics. I have yet to find a vet that just does herps and especially around here, I think it's rare for people to take herps to the vet. Probably why there is not a lot of selection.


She did ask me all those questions, though.


-I'm honestly not very sure. I just noticed it about a week ago. I don't think it was there a few weeks ago, but I wasn't looking for it.
-I don't know. I don't believe it's grown in the one week I've known about it.
-The vet did this, and determined the lump does not seem painful. I agree, because I had done the same thing when I first noticed it. She gets a little feisty when you squeeze, but she will do that if you squeeze any part of her body.
-It's firm and fixed. I've been keeping an eye on its location by counting the saddles on her back. You can't indent it. It doesn't really feel like a rock, but it's definitely firm and doesn't give when you mess with it.
-Two weeks ago. I noticed it when I went to feed her, but ended up not feeding her because I didn't know what it was. I'm planning to give her a small meal this weekend. She is defecating just fine and she has never regurgitated.
-Nothing else to add, really. No other symptoms. She's active, wants to eat, drinking, etc.
Neon Aurora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-18, 01:24 PM   #29 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul-2018
Posts: 6
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

Well... how far down the snake is this lump?? I think right away we can rule out abscess. It just doesn't look like an abscess from the x-ray, plus abscesses are not super hard and fixed; they can be "flexed" when pressed on. They also sit off to the side of something making the lump irregular. The lump on your snake looks pretty uniform.
I am going to guess it is either impaction, or more likely organoamegaly.
It is not constipation since that would be a long distended appearance, not a lump. However if this lump is around 2/3's of the way down the snake it could be impacted right where the stomach meets the small intestine. From the X-ray the lump is organic. So it is either food that will not pass into the intestines, or an enlarged organ.

The fastest way to find out if it is intestinal impaction is to feed the snake and see if the food passes. Feed your snake and watch it carefully after 48 hours. Make sure you handle it every day after the 48 hour mark to see if the snakes energy levels change. The lump should increase in size. The snake will either regurgitate the food, or it will get sick. If the impaction is where I think it is, it should have no problem regurgitating. Infection due to rotting impacted food usually only occurs when the food has already passed into the intestine.

What is the temperature like where you live, in the cage, and does the snake have a warm place to go? Impaction can happen if the snake is too cold after eating, not allowing the digestive processes to do it's thing. Snakes need to be able to warm themselves up in order to digest their food.

In the case of organomegaly (enlarged organs) it really depends on the pathology (what is causing the swelling organ) Either it will fix itself, go away with antibiotics, or the snake has lived it's life and these are it's end times. If it is caused by bacteria the antibiotics should fight off the disease. improperly kept frozen mice can causing this.

I would also rule out cancer/tumors. Again, it doesn't look like what a tumor would look like in an X-ray.

Keep to the antibiotic schedule. Make sure the cage is clean and dry. And report back on what happens after she has a meal. unlike all the other things that could cause a lump in a snake, impaction is the most dangerous and emergent situation.
twentyeggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-18, 02:10 PM   #30 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2015
Posts: 71
Country:
Re: Corn Snake Has Hard Lump

I find it hard to believe she's impacted since she has been pooping no problem. But yes, I'm going to try giving her a meal.


My sister never heated her. When I started taking care of her, I gave her heat. She was kept with a warm spot of 88-90 F and the cool end is usually around 70. There is a pretty decent temperature gradient in between that (measured with temp gun). Since this happened, I raised her warm spot to like 92-93. So she has had good temperature conditions for a couple months now, so through many feedings.



The lump is probably between 1/2 and 2/3 of the way down. Like I said, the organs in that area are the pancreas, stomach, and intestines.
Neon Aurora is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0