my new diamond tank

[shaunyboy]

i got my diamond a new tank for coming out her cooling cycle.i was late at starting her cycle so i just brought her out of it 2 weeks ago.

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank001.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank003.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank006.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank008.jpg

[shaunyboy]

some more pic's
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank002.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank005.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank007.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/diamond%20tank/diamond%20tank/diamondtank009.jpg
i am putting my diamond in this new tank tonight.i will get some pic's of her once shes settled in.
cheers shaun

[gonesnakee]

Looks like a nice setup.
So why was the Diamond being cooled?
IMHO there is no reason to cool them ever other than for breeding purposes & I don't even do that myself to breed.
The slightly cooler room temps here in winter & the reduced light cycle due to the window is the only "cooling" I have ever required.
I am mentioning this as I think this whole having to cool Diamonds way down "concept" is somewhat of a myth & puts more snakes at risk than anything.
Specially if it is not for breeding, there is then zero reason to do so IMHO
Not trying to be anal, but I'm going with the assumption that someone likely told you to do so or it was read about as I have read & been asked about it plenty.
I have successfully bred my Diamonds every year I have tried with no intentional cooling periods, just the natural weather outside affecting their room inside.
Curious as to what you have been told or heard Cheers Mark
P.S. I'm sure the snake will love its new condo LOL

[Hillsberry]

Wow!! Thats such a nice tank you got there. :P

[infernalis]

that is a nice setup.

I never brumate either.

[crackedcorn]

Looks like a nice setup.
So why was the Diamond being cooled?
IMHO there is no reason to cool them ever other than for breeding purposes & I don't even do that myself to breed.
The slightly cooler room temps here in winter & the reduced light cycle due to the window is the only "cooling" I have ever required.
I am mentioning this as I think this whole having to cool Diamonds way down "concept" is somewhat of a myth & puts more snakes at risk than anything.
Specially if it is not for breeding, there is then zero reason to do so IMHO
Not trying to be anal, but I'm going with the assumption that someone likely told you to do so or it was read about as I have read & been asked about it plenty.
I have successfully bred my Diamonds every year I have tried with no intentional cooling periods, just the natural weather outside affecting their room inside.
Curious as to what you have been told or heard Cheers Mark
P.S. I'm sure the snake will love its new condo LOL

Interesting...i was always wondering about diamond hybernation. Mark do u think the info in the article copied not to be accurate? Maybe this is where many are getting their info as this comes up when googled?
"http://sthcoastherpsociety.bizland.com/diamondpaper.chtml"

[shaunyboy]

i have done a lot of research on diamonds NONE OF IT ON GOOGLE.i have dave and tracey barkers pythons of the world volume 1 australia,keeping and breeding australian pythons edited by mike swan,russel grant has worked a lot with diamonds,so ive read his stuff.i also read slip & shine 1988,thermoregulation of free ranging diamonds.slip & shine,thermophilic response to the feeding of the diamond python.slip & shine,the reproductive biology & mating system of diamond pythons.dr richard shine also tagged and tracked diamonds in the wild for a 5 year study.all of these people are of the opinion,that it is benificial to cool diamonds as they WOULD experience in the wild.i try to keep my snakes in as near to their wild conditions as i can replicate.also they say there may be problems with cooling when they reach adult breeding size,if it has not been done from the start.all my other carpets i keep with ceramic set ups.the diamond i use a basking light and a 2.0 natural light uvb (nothings been prooved to be benificial on uvb,but it wont do them any harm).i vary the legnth of basking and uv according to their natural seasons.just now i have a 2 hour bask with 2 hour uvb.next month it will be 4 hr bask & 6 hr uv.then in may it goes up to 4 hr bask & 8 hr uv.that will remain the same right up to november,when i will start cutting it back to 4 hr bask & 4 hr uv.december cool to 3 hr bask & 3 hr uv.jan,feb,march 2 hr bask & 2 hr uv.april4hr bask & 6 hr uv.THIS IS JUST MY PREFERED WAY OF DOING IT.the peoples papers i have read on the subject share this view.gonesnakee,you have been lucky enough to own diamonds and you obviously have the skill to successfully breed these beautiful snakes.your way has worked for you as i'm sure mines will for me.the diamond python is a true cold weather python and as said i try my best to replicate their wild conditions.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Interesting...i was always wondering about diamond hybernation. Mark do u think the info in the article copied not to be accurate? Maybe this is where many are getting their info as this comes up when googled?
"http://sthcoastherpsociety.bizland.com/diamondpaper.chtml"

IMHO,there is a massive difference between hibernation and cooling.you do not hibernate diamonds.stan chiras wrote an artical on diamond hibernation but it has been discredited by a lot of highly ranked members of the herp world.please believe me when i say i put a lot of work into reading up on diamonds before i went out and bought one.i do not doubt people keep diamonds in many different ways,some successfull & some are not.i choose to do it by replicating their natural seasons and cycles as if they were in the wild.what gonesnakee has done has worked with his diamonds.all the proof you need of that is to look at all the beautifull hatchlings he's produced.many breeders have successfully produced hatchlings from my prefered method.which i hope to do as soon as my females up to adult size.so its down to peoples preffered methods on both how to keep their snake and where they get the information on how to keep said snake.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

my thanks to everyone for their nice comments on my new tank.i'll try and get some pic's of my diamond when i move her.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

one last thing on the cooling cycle.if you read up on where diamonds live you will find in the wild they experience temps as low as 50f (it causes them no harm),they are truely exceptional snakes.they also experience 4 seasons.diamonds have been living this way in the wild from the begining.i personally do not think that 30 years of captive breeding has bred out the wild needs of these snakes (hence why i try to replicate their needs in the wild).all this is just my humble opinion.i gained my opinion by studying reputable scientists published papers (slip & shine) and reputable herpers who have kept diamonds (barker & barker,russell grant).i have also listened to what has worked for individual breeders like gonesnakee,who provide invalueable knowledge from their own experiences.we would be lost without people like him sharing with us.i must admit along the way i have read conflicting views,like anyone all i can do is form my own opinion,then take it from there.from what ive read imho cooling is benificial to diamonds and lack of it can be harmfull (not always,but it has been known to cause problems).obviously what you do works for your diamonds gonesnakee,but i have read of cases where diamonds have not been cooled until their first breeding season (as adults) and said diamonds drooped dead a week after coming out the cooling cycle.i am just trying to play it safe and do what a lot of highly rated herpers have wrote has worked for them.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

i have done a lot of research on diamonds NONE OF IT ON GOOGLE.i have dave and tracey barkers pythons of the world volume 1,keping and breeding australian pythons edited by mike swan,russel grant has worked a lot with diamonds,so ive read his stuff.i also read slip & shine 1988,thermoregulation of free ranging diamonds.slip & shine,thermophilic response to the feeding of the diamond python.slip & shine,the reproductive biology & mating system of diamond pythons.dr richard shine also tagged and tracked diamonds in the wild for a 5 year study.all of these people are of the opinion,that it is benificial to cool diamonds as they would experience in the wild.i try to keep my snakes in as near to their wild conditions as i can replicate.also they say there may be problems with cooling when they reach adult breeding size,if it has not been done from the start.all my other carpets i keep with ceramic set ups.the diamond i use a basking light and a 2.0 natural light uvb.i vary the legnth of basking and uv according to their natural seasons.just now i have a 2 hour bask with 2 hour uvb.next month it will be 4 hr bask & 6 hr uv.then in may it goes up to 4 hr bask & 8 hr uv.that will remain the same right up to november,when i will start cutting it back to 4 hr bask & 4 hr uv.december cool to 3 hr bask & 3 hr uv.jan,feb,march 2 hr bask & 2 hr uv.april4hr bask & 6 hr uv.THIS IS JUST MY PREFERED WAY OF DOING IT.the peoples papers i have read on the subject share this view.gonesnakee,you have been lucky enoughto breed these beautiful snakes.your way has worked for you as i'm sure mines will for me.the diamond python is a true cold weather python and as said i try my best to replicate their wild conditions.
cheers shaun

COULD A MODERATOR PLEASE REMOVE THIS POST AS I HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHY ITS POSTED ITSELF TWICE,many thanks shaun

[gonesnakee]

Its not the cooling period itself that is of concern to myself it how low of temps some folks tend to think is required.
Slight temp drops is one thing, but many folks feel the need to go to the same extremes & then some that they would potentially experience in the wild.
I have read of cases where folks have had parts of their enclosures close to the freezing point even as where they are native too can get that cold at times.
As you kind of stated animals that had never been cooled their whole lives all of a sudden experiencing winter conditions & not thriving even dying as a direct result.
Folks intentionally cooling to 40F or less even for extended periods.
I think even 50F is pushing it myself for python species, though Diamonds are a very hardy species I see no reason to intentionally subject them to temps that are that cool.
I would think 60F would be as cool as I would intentionally do so if I did "cool".
Even mine likely get to 60-65F on a really cold day if they are not utilizing their hotspots, which they sometimes do not. Mine are kept in the same room year round so they would experience these slight drops every winter as well, not just as adults.
Their normal cool temps are around 70F (room temp) here, but they get cooler in the winter months where they are kept.
Not trying to criticize your methods as you have obviously done your research but wanted to point out that too many folks have intentionally cooled their animals too cold & had very negative results as a direct result (your findings as well).
Just because they may experience extreme temps in the wild doesn't mean they "need" them is kind of my main point. Not sure how cool you allow yours to get or for how long but as we both have mentioned some folks do so with very adverse affects.
Thus my concern. Sounds like you are very aware & are doing so safely.
Again I have read of Europeon keepers who have actually had temps as low as freezing going on in some cases & in some of the cases where folks cooled them really low & then had deaths occur etc. as well.
Even with North American Colubrids they can experience temps as cool as 40-45F or less even in the wild some do OK some do not, thus in captivity I start to get concerned if they get down towards the 50-55F mark even. I HAVE lost Colubrids during cold snaps in Brumation in my basement before. My main points being just because they are subjected to extremes both hot & cold in the wild doesn't mean its required in captivity & doing so on either end of the scale can be detrimental to their existence.
However that said an intentional cooling cycle is just fine as long as one is not taking it to the extremes.
Many folks IMHO take their Diamonds WAY too cool due to the fact they have the most extreme temps within their natural rangescompared to other similar species.
You don't state your "lows" really but I think I can safely assume based on your research & comments they are no where near as cold as some folks have tried with negative results.
Not trying to be anal at all LOL just do not want you to have a bad experience due to potentially following someones bad advice. I have had many folks that have obtained them from me ask questions in reguards to this all & some of their research results seemed rather disturbing to me & not worth the risk. Actual ice on water bowls etc. :rolleyes: LOL
Sounds like you have things under control anyways, but I wanted to touch on it all not just for you but for everyone else reading the posts. Cheers Mark

[crackedcorn]

Good info guys. When searching for diamond info it can be a little confusing with so much variance in opinions, ideas.....etc.

[percey39]

A lot of people from over here go anal on this subject as well. I believe diamonds do need a healthy drop in temps but dont go to extremes, remember they are very happy at 24-26 celcius normally. They dont need more than this constantly unless digesting then maybe go to 28 at the hot end. The same goes for cooling i would never drop below 12 degrees celcius, but thats my opinion. Having some of the extremes you have said mark is just plain crazy. I would never want to see ice on a water bowl, that is just too cold and is extremely stupid and risky IMO. As has been said many people have had success with other methods but i have found this way to work year in year out when i used to have this species many years ago.
Great set up by the way im sure your diamond wll absolutely love the space.

[percey39]

My last post left out my smiley "sigh" i hate that. I had someone around today telling me i needed to put heaps of ice blocks in my copperhead tanks lol. They said they have been doing it all the time for their diamonds, the weather here outside is only 26 why do that save money turn the tanks heating off. Some people make you laugh. I should of said i put mine in the freezer for 3 hours a day lol

[shaunyboy]

gonesnakee,i agree with you 100%.in the summer,i usually run the hot end around (day) 82f,basking spot of 90f to 95f(try to keep a constant 94f).cool end 76f to 78f. (night) hot end mid to high 70'sf.cool end low to mid 70'sf.for the cooling cycle,in november i stop feeding,give the gut 1 month to clear then start cooling.
1 month after last feed.
first drop.day 78f / night 75f
second drop 1 week later.day 78f / night 73f
third drop 1 week later. day 78f / night 69f
i put a heat mat in for the duration of the cooling period,one just big enough for the diamond to fit on curled up.i set the stat at 64f (my room runs at roughly 68f at this time of year during the night).this stops the diamond ever going bellow that temp so keeps it safe.i keep them like this for 4 weeks.then i take a further 3 weeks to heat them back up.pretty much the cooling down cycle in reverse.sorry if any of my previous posts sounded anal,that was the last thing i was trying to be.i think it was the did i type it in google and take it from there post that set me off (a pet hate of mine is people who dont research enough about the snake they are about to care for).i'm also with you on these people who replicate the most extreme temp's that diamonds have to endure in the wild,i'm against it.i think the worst thing ever written on diamonds was stan chiras artical on how he puts his diamonds in a stylafoam box and forces them to hibernate in his garage for 3 months.for anyone not sure that may be reading this post in the wild DIAMONDS DO NOT AND SHOULD NOT HIBERNATE.....!!! gonesnakee i'm so glad we agree on all this as i was dreading some anal arguement on diamond temp's as percey39 say's over his way they have the biggest anal debates ever on the subject.if folk would just take the time to read up properly on the subject,then apply some common sense to what they read,then things should work out just fine.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

perecey again i couldnt agree more.you could have been describing my diamond.she sits up her cool end most of the time (76f to 78f).the only exceptions being.1.the night after she eats she will go up to her hot end (80f to 82f) for 3 nights (i assume this is to aid digestion of her food.2.the week before she sheds,she will go to her hot end and stay there day & night.she then goes back to her cold end after roughly a week,she then usually sheds within 3 days of doing it.
cheers shaun