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Old 06-11-04, 04:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun-2003
Posts: 2,657

I think you knew I was going to respond to this post. Well simply the person you mention in your post is me because we discussed this yesterday and even though we see things on 2 different ends you forgot to mention the main focus of this post being why we were on 2 different ends.

We were discussing when it was right to let a buyer have a baby boa from you. I simply said the rule of thumb most people follow and all big name breeders in CANADA and USA is that the boa should be in perfect health before selling. I told you check 5 breeder websites that you respect and see their terms on selling or shipping. To put it simple most say not ready till they shed 1 - 2 times and have eaten 3 - 5 times - meaning the animal must be well established before selling. To me this is good business sense and great animal ethics. It is easy to breed for the most part and easier to sell a litter wholesale right out the door minutes after birth if you want. But to me that is where the hobby has gone "corporate" - produce and get rid of fast. And no responsibility over the animals and there first few days trying to survive becomes last of the concerns. You said they look healthy but that does not mean they are. Why not put some time in them with feeds and seeing there sheds before a sale, it gives you more confidence to stand behind your animals.

In this post you mention guarantee and its terms, simple like I said most responsibly breeders will give 24 – 48 hours on either a pick up or shipped animal. They list there terms on that coverage which the buyer must agree too once payment made and the animal is released. This shows the buyer that the breeder is responsible and that the animals are as represented. Could you image the order your doing from USA if the seller says thank you and they arrive and things go bad. I mean what we were discussing before states that you are OK with sending a few thousand dollars across the border and do not want any guarantee then. If not then your saying a $100.00 - $10, 000.00 has terms and this means you think a lesser value animals has no guarantee. This is where we started seeing our differences and it went from that to taking responsibility and care for the young boas and get them established before selling. Now if the buyer understands up front because you tell them – that these boas were just born and you claim no responsibility or grant them any guarantee then it is buyer, beware and there should be no hassle then. This type of business does occur world wide and I can not say I agree with that at all.

Like I said before my facility and business runs on proper animal ethics, I am not saying others don’ t. I get rather attached to every animal in my life, be it from a pet rabbit to my Doberman’s, from Analisa’s parrots to my boid collection and I feel an animal is sold, traded or given away in the best care possible I can give it before it leaves us. Even selling babies I had opportunities to sell with in the birth week and did not let any leave till they ate 3 – 5 times and shed at least once. Letting a snake leave after a shed to most breeders is more for the appearance issue to see the animals and its possible characteristics of its future for display or breeding. And my personal opinion on that on our animals is I just prefer to see this to be sure the animal can achieve this natural behavior with out complications. As for feeding 3 – 5 times before I sell a baby snake this just means the snake does what nature does and animals are healthier when feeding. From that point then on I am very comfortable with the selling of that animal and stand behind them with respect to it and the buyer that my part of making the sale is an honest and honorable one.

In case something happens to the animals once they leave your location via airline or its packaging those situations are usually dealt between you and the buyer and airline. If you follow proper packaging methods and comply with the air line rules then these animals have no complications due to this factor. Now if something happens while in the care of the new owner this becomes a judgment call between the 2 parties. Although you can never tell if the buyer can handle this new responsibility 100% it is best to question them as they question you. Proper questions and the fact that you try your best to get new homes for the animals will ensure the best decision you can make on completing a sale. But being this is a shady area of relying on honesty, it is best both buyer and seller respect each other and do what is needed to secure the best home for that animal. This should always be the main focus over the buyer thinking “I got money, I need it fast, I want to breed, I’ll learn as it goes”, and so on. Or the seller thinking “I can make my money back on this chump, good I can get rid of it fast, It’s his problem now”, and so on. I say if both are respectful and honest on the sale of the animal, in the end the animal wins.

If the animal becomes sick or dies in a 48 hour warranty and the buyer is close to your location you both can work out an agreement. If the buyer is at a distance where shipping was used then if both parties agree before the sale of the animal that the refund be money, or another animal then proper paperwork can be filled out to make this possible with a vet visit. Once those documents are complete and the buyer sends that information, and photos of the troubled animal or the animal is return alive or dead. Then the seller can arrange another option with the buyer.

There is a lot to discuss and say and I can easily triple my responding post here without blinking an eye. But I feel the general idea is being said. Respect the animals and the people you buy and sell too. Explain the terms both ways and do the best possible deal in favor of the animals and let the almighty buck be your last concern because all that is said above will get you your all your money and none of the headaches.

This post was not intended to start a flame, and I and Mike are on good terms. We simply see 2 different views and life situations are always 2 points.

Thank you for reading and taking the time to respond.


Tony Pharosx

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