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Old 11-23-03, 11:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Great read guys..

it would go around and around and probably take some time for it to get out, but it would eventually simply by trial and error,
Yes, but most things are learned by trial and error, and the animal in question does figure out where and how to get out. Which has to have a base of thinking.

but they wont sit still and first observe the enclosure for exits.
Maybe. However, blindfold your self and move around a room a few times. Once you generally figure out where the opening is, you'll have more of a chance at finding it sooner. Which brings forth you have learned where to go to get out of a box. You didnt get the chance to observe the area but after a few attempts you learned on where to go. Much like the testings that are done on snakes.

They could possibly detect air movement through the entrance, or follow scent molecule streams from outside to the point of entry,and this could assist in escape, but that would be instinctual use of built in chemistry rather than problem solving.
I wouldn't go about along that line, unless it attains to us as well. Everything we use to learn is obtained from built in systems as well. Sight, Smell, touch.
Interesting thoughts and points to figure. Thanks for the reply and please do so if anything else sparks up.

how to thermoregulate (even then, how often do you come across animals that have been burnt?)
Well that'a a relatively easy answer..
Have you ever gone to the beach without using sun block? The sun feels good and you are comfortable. Then, a few hours later, your skin is painful to the touch, and is obviously burned. You may even develop burn blisters, and perhaps an infection. We feel pain, but sometimes the development of a burn is so slow that we fail to recognize the warning signs until it is too late. This is similar to the reaction we see in reptiles with thermal burns. We also need to be aware of the reason a reptile is often on the hot rock for extended periods of time in the first place. It is because the ambient temperature in its environment is too low. This low temperature slows down the reptile’s metabolic rate, which in turn decreases its reactions to stimuli, including pain.(N.O.A.H)

If you percieve intelligence as being problem solving, adapting to new situations, memorizing, etc. Then no, reptiles are probably not very intelligent.
It's been said snakes can think and do solve problems such as say Holtzman's testings have proved. I havent read up to much on his tests yet but seem promising and I still await for him to reply to his email.

And yet again, if you are measuring by brain mass, then leopard reptiles are not very smart.
I wouldn't actually go by mass persay. More over I'd go with the components the brain posse. Such as the crocodilians who attain a relatively larger cerebral cortex and so forth can and do for a fact learn. Some more than others again, because of things going on inside the other parts of the brain.

well i noticed that a distinction between reptiles and humans/monkeys and what not is that reptiles are cold blooded
Heh, yea Endothermic and ectothermic creatures are somewhat different.

but since they're cold blooded i'd think that the brain would have to devote more of its small self to temperature monitoring.
Maybe, but we all go through the thoughts of keeping warm and or keeping cool, and to an extent I somehow dont figure a brain has a limit of what it can learn but has the limitation is by what it has to work with. However, according to several sites there are electrical signs of non-REM sleep under the level of the cerebrum of most reptiles.
Reptiles are possibly unihemispheric sleepers. (one hemisphere of the brain falls asleep while the other stays awake and responsive) A common routine in birds.

Some reptiles, maybe, (e.g. Iguanas and other lizards) show signs of REM sleep, including flat muscle tone and wake-like EEG activity_ (Hartse, Rechtschaffen, Peyrethon et al 1968, Huntley 1987, Ayala-Guerrero 1991; in Siegel et al, 1998).
The occupied of 67.7% and 0.6% of the 24-h period, respectively state displays its own behavioral and electrophysiological characteristics. The mean duration of As episodes was very short (12.9 +/- 9 s). Stimuli reaction threshold was highest during sleep. Could this mean reptiles do think while they are asleep? For the commonly said instinctual animals, why would one need to think while asleep? Questions, questions, questions... Heh, Im confused. More thoughts.

Last edited by KrokadilyanGuy3; 11-23-03 at 11:59 PM..
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