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Old 11-04-03, 04:39 AM   #67 (permalink)
Slannesh's Avatar
Join Date: Oct-2003
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Age: 43
Posts: 706
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Interesting how Ontario Herper just HAPPENS to have a friend with 20+ years of experience poke his nose into here, not right off the bat when we all wondered what the more experienced among us have to say, but when I said i'd shut up when someone experienced came in and proved us all wrong.

You'll excuse me if i'm a tad skeptical i'm sure.

Where was an experienced keeper being 'lambasted' by someone very new to the hobby? I've been keeping herps in one form or another for almost 20 years. Seriously for the last 6 or 7. Most of the other people sounding off on this topic seems to be of similar experience.

On to a few quotes

The first two from our suddenly present friend of Ontario's Cerastes

There are way too many newbies typing up a lot of crap.
Aw, I think he's talking to me. Nice to know i'm making a lot of friends. Thanks. What exactly have I stated about Ball Python husbandry that was 'crap'?

"Most of the statements depend on the condition of the animal in question - if an adult ball python is being kept properly (and not being cycled for breeding) an appropriately sized meal every month or so is not unreasonable!"
Agreed, different animals eat at different rates. We've already clearly established that. What got me started in the first place was the orginal post stated:
"bp about 3.5 ft long. This guy said he feeds it a small/med rat once per month "so it won't get too big." If that wasn't bad enough he said he just dumps the rat in live so "he doesn't have to touch it."
Would you agree that is adequite husbandry? I sure wouldn't, and said so. So then tell us, what is unreasonable? We already know that offering a suitably sized prey item once every 4 weeks is acceptable to you. How about 6 weeks? 3 months? 4?

And another one from my dear friend Cerastes:

I'd be listening to Scotty more if I were you! He said (to refresh your memories) "There's an awfully lot of grossly over fed captive snakes (and other herps) out there, maybe someone will learn something here."
My memory is quite good, along with that interesting reading thing my parents taught me when I was 3 or so. My snake is not overweight. So what relevance does that have to whether or not only feeding a BP once a month at all? None. I would come down on someone just as hard if I heard they were feeding the same snake every other day.

And a parting shot from the above:

I will return to my normal absence from the internet, and let you guys get back to your senseless arguements. I just hope when all the dust settles you learn to listen to those with more experience than yourselves - that's how we all learn!
Thanks, hopefully you'll do more than just wave your buddy's flag next time you come around and tell us all how right he is again. Again I ask, with slightly different wording this time. Which aspect of Ball Python husbandry that I offered was "Senseless"?

And just in case his 20 year+ experience friend wasn't enough:

Hi Lori!

I am a reptile keeper at the Toronto Zoo with 12 years experience
Iv'e done a lot of volunteering at the Calgary zoo while I still lived in Calgary, (which in case you are wondering involves feces more often than pretty much any job you could ever want) Would you mind clarifying what exactly is a "reptile keeper" For us? Are you a zookeeper? Animal Health Technologist? A Vet perhaps? I would just like to get the facts straight.

It is far too easy for captive animals to become overweight - and i have seen my fair share of this and the subsequent death of the animals as well.
At the zoo you work for? I thought they were all properly fed and you "you need to be very aware of their metabolic and nutritional requirements" Or does that apply only to the ball pythons, which is the only species we're talking about in this thread.

Wild rodents feed on seeds and vegetation
I hope you are aware that most nuts are high in fat content.
A handy table I found using a quick Google search.
Nuts (1oz) Saturated Fat (g) Total Fat (g)
Mixed nuts, oil-roasted 2.5g 16g
Pecans 1.5g 18.3g
Pine nuts 2.2g 14.3g
Pistachios 1.7g 13.7g
Walnuts 1g 16g
Ginkgo nuts 0.1g 0.6g
Butter nuts 0.4g 16.2g

1 ounce = 28.35 grams
So all but two of the above examples were more than half fat of those two one was very close and one was very low.

Seems like a low fat diet for mr Rat to me! Which I suppose is totally irrelevant since Ball Pythons do not eat rats in the wild at all. But i'm sure she knew that.

Kids, please read up on your reptile husbandry. Overfeeding snakes is the kiss of death for that animal. Maybe not immediately, but in time.
Nice and condecending. Yet still no actual information. I'm closer to 30 than 29 so I hardly qualify as a 'kid' to anyone other than my parents and grandparents. And did you miss the part where I mentioned the literally dozens of caresheets and books, shows on the discovery channel that i'd read and seen regarding snakes in general and Ball Pythons in particular? Or did you just jump in here, offer no valuable information other than basically 'our friend is right and you're all wrong so shut up about it' and then want to take off?

Please. All you've done is given the pot another stir while trying to add credence to your friends theory with no facts or hell, even specific observations to back any of it up.

In all honesty i'm more or less done with this topic myself by now, it's obvious those of us who agree with my way of thinking will continue to do so and those of you who agree with Ontario will also do so. For everyone's pets I hope we're both half wong and i'm feeding her twice what she should be eating and you're only feeding them half. Hopefully we'll have less dead snakes that way.

Feel free to get in your last word and parting gifts

I'm not afraid of the Dark, I'm afraid of what's IN the Dark. ~Anonymous~
Ball Python, Leopard Geckos, Bearded Dragon, Crested Geckos, Corn snakes a Dumeril's Boa and African Dwarf Frogs so far.

Last edited by Slannesh; 11-04-03 at 04:41 AM..
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